Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Immortals]

Also, what if Turkey or any other Arab country goes total rogue in future and decides to develop its own Missile Strike on patterns of Iran ?

They already are. Turkey is advancing quite rapidly in solid fuel missiles and Saudi Arabia is using Chinese ToT and engineers to build up their own capability. Unlike Iran they just keep their mouths closed about it and don’t go parading around screaming death to Israel. They realize pissing off Israel or America is a losing battle. Like trying to kill a bear with a toothbrush.

Iran is trying to defeat Israel + America on $30B military budget and words of solidarity with the Sunni world. Means nothing. Countries care about who has power and can raise them up. Iran couldn’t even prop up the Syrian economy other than some oil and gas shipments occasionally. It lacks the deep pockets of the Arabs. While Soviet Union couldn’t beat America with much of Europe and Asia allied with it and a massive scientific and spending spree.

The Iranian government that took power in 1979 lacked an ounce of pragmatism and it cost the country dearly. Other countries have learned from the price Iran paid (Turkey, Syria, post Saddam Iraq, Libya, etc).

 

[Immortals]

India spending $7B to procure more of its own fighter. This should be a wake up call for those that think you can build your own fighter development program on shoestring budgets.

Also India doesn’t even produce the engine for their own fighter jet, they order from GE (USA).

https://www.reuters.com/world/india/india-signs-7-bln-deal-with-hal-fighter-aircraft-2025-09-25/?taid=68d592607de7d80001c68dfe&utm_campaign=trueAnthem:+Trending+Content&utm_medium=trueAnthem&utm_source=twitter

 

[ToddE]

In reality this is a war between Irán and US/Israel (two sides of the same coin). Increasing ranges of missiles would eventually drag EU to the scene unnecessary.

EU has no actual bite without US support. Even if Iran tests one of its SLVs with a RV as an ICBM (Qassed for example) or launches Sejjil-II at its full apogee (may cross 3500 KM) EU will not launch a war on Iran, sanctions may come but after a nod from US. Almost all governments are Jew Debt playgrounds except few. If US does not involve itself then EU won't.

With 2000 Km Irán can hit whatever militarily objective of US/Israel in the whole Middle East.

This time, US demand is more crippling because there is just no way Iran can disguise an IRBM or even a hypersonic MRBM like Fattah or KS as "500 KM". They will literally have to claim 3 Tonnes of warhead for these missiles to justify their existence under whatever lame ass deal Araghchi cuts with Khamenei's backing.

See 2000 KM was JCPOA outcome and was quite workable for IRGC. They had to give hilarious explanations for Sejjil-II, K-4 borderline IRBMs which they labeled as "1800 Kg warhead" for 2000 KM range. IISS themselves estimated them to be capable or reaching ~3500 KM with regular 650 KG warhead. So it was workable. 500 KM means Iranian strike arms will be gone forever and be reduced to Turkey, Egypt, KSA levels.

Irán is not curbing missile production. AFAIK just ranges. So the real danger comes from the lack of credible Air Force. We can be optimist if some dozens Mig29 are arriving. Those would have no real utility for challenging Israeli Air force. But at least would provide unvaluable training for new pilots and personnel in modern fighters if they're equipped with modern avionics.

By no means a MIG-29/35 airframe can provide strike capability to Iran as a substitute to IRGCAF's devastating missile strikes. Its just an old interceptor whose only utility in a modern combat is in form of a point defender with R-77AE+R-73M package. It cant carry long ranged BVR, does not have a modern AESA radar, does not have range or avionics to support itself venturing out of Iranian airspace over Iraq to resist IAF launching ALBMs. IRIAF can secure Persian Gulf against PGCC or Turkey-Azerbaijan theatre with them but IRGCAF's reciporcating strikes are far more heavier deterent than flying these interceptors on borders.

Saying that, I have always been highly in favor of IRIAF rebuilding itself around MIG-29 because it will not require any training, infrastructure establishment etc. Iran asked for 72 of these in 1991 with plan for 148 of them along with MIG-31. So if they come, they are OK but not at the cost of IRGCAF's missile capabilities.

As intermediate step Mig29 It is a good solution, but final step must be ambitious. Su35 by 2 Squadrons at least. And would be much better if any AEW comes also (highly unlikely).

The real target It is the whole Government, starting by Khamenei. Everybody knows that.

Khamenei has killed the SU-35S deal if BT written article is to be believed (posted few pages back). I am assuming IRI used SU-35S deal as a bargaining chip against some demand by US+Israel. May be US+Israel asked for complete bundling up of Missile Program but with a large fleet of SU-35S and with experience of firing hundreds of solids fueled sleek MRBMs for years now, Israel got afraid that with such a large strike aircraft, Iran may switch to its own scary arsenal of MaRVed-ALBMs. SU-35S carrying ALBMs means Iran firing ALBMs from over iraq or even from within Iranian territory at Israel (no boost required). This is why A large fleet of SU-35S/SU-30SM in Iranian hands is a big no no for Israel. They will be fully happy with large number of MIG-29/35 in IRIAF colors in exchange for missile ranges curbing + gaurantees of no SU-35S in Iranian hands.

 

[kastor ville]

There is a lot of speculation, but it seems that Iran's condition for purchasing the MiG-29 is to receive the MiG-29M2 version with the AESA radar, the Zhuk-AE radar. As for the rest, I don't really know, like you.

I hope this is true.

“Alongside the MiG-29s, Zohrevant said that Tehran will be acquiring Russia’s S-400 air defense systems and China’s HQ-9 air defense system “in significant numbers.”

Why would you get both? Either get s400 or hq 9. It’s better for logistics and integration.

I know it wishful thinking , but Russia should give us a Nebo radar.....we need an early warning for Stealth. If we could neutralize or even diminish their stealth capabilities it would be a big step in the right direction. .

 

[ToddE]

They already are. Turkey is advancing quite rapidly in solid fuel missiles and Saudi Arabia is using Chinese ToT and engineers to build up their own capability. Unlike Iran they just keep their mouths closed about it and don’t go parading around screaming death to Israel. They realize pissing off Israel or America is a losing battle. Like trying to kill a bear with a toothbrush.

I think you have not heard of Israeli doctrine of perception of threats. They dont care if you are friendly towards them for now. Israel will see Turkey and KSA as threats equal to Iran if they develop strike capbility like Iran. Turkey can keep on massaging Israeli ballz by supplying 6 Billion USD worth raw material to Israeli parts to keep them happy and PGCC can keep on facilitating Israel more and more in Penninsula but it wont work if they cross a limit. US and Israel are no fools that just because these countries are quiet so they dont know whats happening under military sheds. CIA previously made sure that only handful of TELs and small conventional warheaded DF-21 were allowed to reach Penninsula. There are missiles facilities but all happening under American nose.

Turkey is showing ambition towards TR/SRBM (currently standing at Zolfaghar like capability at max) but like KSA it won't be allowed to develop anything on Iranian scale that endagers (A) Israel in future (B) EU next door. Remember Its a country with half its GDP built on Western/Jew Debt so you know the hand that feeds runs the state, dont fall for Erdogans empty barking, its an Israeli allied/controlled country so wont be allowed to create a threat to Israel.

Iran is trying to defeat Israel + America on $30B military budget and words of solidarity with the Sunni world. Means nothing. Countries care about who has power and can raise them up. Iran couldn’t even prop up the Syrian economy other than some oil and gas shipments occasionally. It lacks the deep pockets of the Arabs. While Soviet Union couldn’t beat America with much of Europe and Asia allied with it and a massive scientific and spending spree.

The Iranian government that took power in 1979 lacked an ounce of pragmatism and it cost the country dearly. Other countries have learned from the price Iran paid (Turkey, Syria, post Saddam Iraq, Libya, etc).

We all know perfectly that IRI is a dysfunctional Islamo-Marxist system made up of illiterate Clerics + "new-money" corrupt Businessmen from bottom of Iranian society so what do you exactly expect from them ? I am amazed people still talk of their faults like its a new thing. IRI runs at 1/10th of its true potential GDP, has wasted thousands of Iranian lives and 500+ billion USD on Arab militias to counter "Israel and US". The same money could have been the investment in its HC sector. Rial is trash now, still Khamenei's deployed pet reformist Pezeshkian was assuring the enemy on its soil yesterday that Iran would never establish any conventional or uncovnentional deterence. Russia will keep taking advantage of Iran (Caspian Sea, INSTC, drone tech, fraud defence deals), China will keep purchasing Iranian oil at subsidized rate. IRI is favored by everyone except Iranians. I am begginging to think these people are just dumb and corrupt or were they deployed foriegn agents from the beginning to destroy Iran from within.

 

[Shafagh]

EU has no actual bite without US support. Even if Iran tests one of its SLVs with a RV as an ICBM (Qassed for example) or launches Sejjil-II at its full apogee (may cross 3500 KM) EU will not launch a war on Iran, sanctions may come but after a nod from US. Almost all governments are Jew Debt playgrounds except few. If US does not involve itself then EU won't.



This time, US demand is more crippling because there is just no way Iran can disguise an IRBM or even a hypersonic MRBM like Fattah or KS as "500 KM". They will literally have to claim 3 Tonnes of warhead for these missiles to justify their existence under whatever lame ass deal Araghchi cuts with Khamenei's backing.

See 2000 KM was JCPOA outcome and was quite workable for IRGC. They had to give hilarious explanations for Sejjil-II, K-4 borderline IRBMs which they labeled as "1800 Kg warhead" for 2000 KM range. IISS themselves estimated them to be capable or reaching ~3500 KM with regular 650 KG warhead. So it was workable. 500 KM means Iranian strike arms will be gone forever and be reduced to Turkey, Egypt, KSA levels.



By no means a MIG-29/35 airframe can provide strike capability to Iran as a substitute to IRGCAF's devastating missile strikes. Its just an old interceptor whose only utility in a modern combat is in form of a point defender with R-77AE+R-73M package. It cant carry long ranged BVR, does not have a modern AESA radar, does not have range or avionics to support itself venturing out of Iranian airspace over Iraq to resist IAF launching ALBMs. IRIAF can secure Persian Gulf against PGCC or Turkey-Azerbaijan theatre with them but IRGCAF's reciporcating strikes are far more heavier deterent than flying these interceptors on borders.

Saying that, I have always been highly in favor of IRIAF rebuilding itself around MIG-29 because it will not require any training, infrastructure establishment etc. Iran asked for 72 of these in 1991 with plan for 148 of them along with MIG-31. So if they come, they are OK but not at the cost of IRGCAF's missile capabilities.



Khamenei has killed the SU-35S deal if BT written article is to be believed (posted few pages back). I am assuming IRI used SU-35S deal as a bargaining chip against some demand by US+Israel. May be US+Israel asked for complete bundling up of Missile Program but with a large fleet of SU-35S and with experience of firing hundreds of solids fueled sleek MRBMs for years now, Israel got afraid that with such a large strike aircraft, Iran may switch to its own scary arsenal of MaRVed-ALBMs. SU-35S carrying ALBMs means Iran firing ALBMs from over iraq or even from within Iranian territory at Israel (no boost required). This is why A large fleet of SU-35S/SU-30SM in Iranian hands is a big no no for Israel. They will be fully happy with large number of MIG-29/35 in IRIAF colors in exchange for missile ranges curbing + gaurantees of no SU-35S in Iranian hands.

What about a platform that can carry air launched ballistic missiles i.e. Mig 31 with Kinzal missile setup.

 

[Shafagh]

See 2000 KM was JCPOA outcome and was quite workable for IRGC. They had to give hilarious explanations for Sejjil-II, K-4 borderline IRBMs which they labeled as "1800 Kg warhead" for 2000 KM range

So let them develop Sejjil-III with 500km range and 3000kg warhead.

JCPOA version 2.0 compliant

 

[ShapurII]

So let them develop Sejjil-III with 500km range and 3000kg warhead.

JCPOA version 2.0 compliant

They will limit the warhead size too. Probably to 650 kg, at most.

 

[Shafagh]

They will limit the warhead size too. Probably to 650 kg, at most.

Then make cluster warheads. 600kg each.

 

[ToddE]

So let them develop Sejjil-III with 500km range and 3000kg warhead.

JCPOA version 2.0 compliant

Funny. Last time IRGCAF did this to hide the actual ranges, lets see what they do now.

What about a platform that can carry air launched ballistic missiles i.e. Mig 31 with Kinzal missile setup.

If they can somehow reduce weight of Fattah hypersonic missile (~4000 Kg I think) it can be lifted under belly of a SU-35S/30SM. If launched from air, without the need for waste fuel on boost, its hypersonic MaRV can reach around ~2000 KM with lofted apogee. An unstoppable weapon, pretty similar to Israeli ALBMs themselves. Launched from ground, it has to waste lots of fuel on boost phase.

One of the reasons SU-35S in Iranian hand can be strategic weapon that likes of MIG-29/35 can never become.

 

[ShapurII]

Then make cluster warheads. 600kg each.

They will force Iran to limit its solid/liquid fueled engines to have a limited thrust.

Assuming a normal Thrust/Weight ratio of 1.8, and a range of 500 km with a warhead weighing 650 kg, and a total mass of 8 tones, a thrust of about 150 kN would probably be the limit in such a deal.

The West are not stupid to allow Iran to produce heavy missiles with limited range. They will target our rocket engine technology for sure.

 

[That_Guy]

Well they are only citing Zohrevand's comments.

If true, it's a small glimmer of hope.

I still think we should buy North Korean. Their technology isn't compromised.

You may as well buy from temu at that point.

Outside of missiles, the DPRK's tech is pretty shit.

Honestly, the only tech they have (outside of missiles) that's kind of impressive is their clone of the US Global Hawk

US Global Hawk


DPRK Clone

 

[ToddE]

They will force Iran to limit its solid/liquid fueled engines to have a limited thrust.

Assuming a normal Thrust/Weight ratio of 1.8, and a range of 500 km with a warhead weighing 650 kg, and a total mass of 8 tones, a thrust of about 150 kN would probably be the limit in such a deal.

The West are not stupid to allow Iran to produce heavy missiles with limited range. They will target our rocket engine technology for sure.

Last time they got fooled (deliberately?). K-4 was tested later than JCPOA and IISS document called it an IRBM that can deploy clustered sub-munitions from its Radially thrust controlled PBV at "3500" KM. They even showed a plot of its warhead and range. Meanwhile IRGC called it, 1800 KG, 2000 KM which no one believed.

 

[Shags101]

You may as well buy from temu at that point.

Outside of missiles, the DPRK's tech is pretty shit.

Honestly, the only tech they have (outside of missiles) that's kind of impressive is their clone of the US Global Hawk

US Global Hawk
View attachment 149413

DPRK Clone
View attachment 149414

Disagree and agree I think submarine and destroyers are coming along fairly well(minus capsizing lol no one is perfect! I saw their tank seemed fairly professional but I haven’t seen them invest in their Air Force at all which is definitely surprising not even knock off copies of modern Chinese or Russian jets lost my train of thought happens quite often my point was because something looks the same from the outside doesn’t mean it’s as advanced as the original referring to the hawk knock off

 

[ShapurII]

Last time they got fooled (deliberately?). K-4 was tested later than JCPOA and IISS document called it an IRBM that can deploy clustered sub-munitions from its Radially thrust controlled PBV at "3500" KM. They even showed a plot of its warhead and range. Meanwhile IRGC called it, 1800 KG, 2000 KM which no one believed.

Honestly, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this whole talk of limiting Iran's missiles is nonsense and impractical. It's just some tactic to buy time.

It is practically impossible to do so unless Iran gives them access to our confidential military sites. At that point, Iran will no longer have an independent military anymore.

I can see how nuclear proliferation can be monitored, but how are they going to know what sort of rocket engines we are experimenting with or producing in secret? It's different from having IAEA inspectors. They cannot have inspectors at our military sites to monitor that and satellite imagery will not be sufficient.