Iranian aviation engine development (military and civilian)

Akhmed

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In the name of Parvardegar:

This thread is discussion regarding military and civilian aircraft engine developments in Iran

@Emirzad @Hack-Hook @Immortals ..Guys ..not my area of experty. your cooperation is needed to populate this thread in the coming months.... Thread needs to be sticky..I start with few photos of MAPNA's attempt at first high thrust Engine of Iran (could be a base for both military and civilian)..
ENG_1.jpgENG_2.jpgENG_3.jpgENG_4.jpg
 
Source:
NA
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Let's break it down

=> Turbojets
=> Turbofans
=> Rocket engines (Solid, Liquid, Kick stages)
=> Turboprop/Turboshafts
 
In the name of Parvardegar:

This thread is discussion regarding military and civilian aircraft engine developments in Iran

@Emirzad @Hack-Hook @Immortals ..Guys ..not my area of experty. your cooperation is needed to populate this thread in the coming months.... Thread needs to be sticky..I start with few photos of MAPNA's attempt at first high thrust Engine of Iran (could be a base for both military and civilian)..
View attachment 60276View attachment 60277View attachment 60278View attachment 60279
I saw a recent partizan video stating that mapna actually built the engine, but I also read in this forum that it is the holding frame that mapna built, not the engine. In the video, mapna stated that it will not pursue the engine unless there is a major partner (domestic or foreign) willing to step in.
 
Let's break it down

=> Turbojets
=> Turbofans
=> Rocket engines (Solid, Liquid, Kick stages)
=> Turboprop/Turboshafts
If we want to break it down we need 4 threads....any suggestions to avoid having to have 4 separated threads..??
 
I saw a recent partizan video stating that mapna actually built the engine, but I also read in this forum that it is the holding frame that mapna built, not the engine. In the video, mapna stated that it will not pursue the engine unless there is a major partner (domestic or foreign) willing to step in.
My latest info is that MAPNA did reverse eng the original FADEC and digitized it...They also manufacture the Single crystal blade for its turbine....you are correct about MAPNA needing partner to start efforts toward production...here we are talking Billion dollar investments....golden opportunity for AF to do something right on this.
 
Let's break it down

=> Turbojets
=> Turbofans
=> Rocket engines (Solid, Liquid, Kick stages)
=> Turboprop/Turboshafts
In the name of Parvardegar:

This thread is discussion regarding military and civilian aircraft engine developments in Iran

@Emirzad @Hack-Hook @Immortals ..Guys ..not my area of experty. your cooperation is needed to populate this thread in the coming months.... Thread needs to be sticky..I start with few photos of MAPNA's attempt at first high thrust Engine of Iran (could be a base for both military and civilian)..
View attachment 60276View attachment 60277View attachment 60278View attachment 60279
Mana didn't built the engine.
They built the frame to maintain it
 
If we want to break it down we need 4 threads....any suggestions to avoid having to have 4 separated threads..??

I meant we can categorize our posts here in these categories.
 
Mana didn't built the engine.
They built the frame to maintain it

I seriously can’t believe people STILL think Iran built a jet engine of that class.

That would be the biggest accomplishment in the history of the aviation industry for Iran.

Iran can maintain engines, but not build. Not even close. That requires 50B+ R&D program that Iran does not have funds for
 
I seriously can’t believe people STILL think Iran built a jet engine of that class.

That would be the biggest accomplishment in the history of the aviation industry for Iran.

Iran can maintain engines, but not build. Not even close. That requires 50B+ R&D program that Iran does not have funds for
The director of this knowledge-based company noted: After seven years of continuous efforts, we have achieved the full design knowledge of this engine. All stages of the compressor blades of this engine are reverse engineered. Most of the components of the combustion chamber of the engine and its turbine section (Hot Section) are also made. The construction of other side parts of this engine, including the engine control unit (FADEC), sensors, various precise measurement and control equipment, hydraulic and pneumatic valves and pumps, gearbox, data transmission system and cabling, etc., has also been completed.

He said: The design and manufacture of the fan blades has also been completed and now we are obtaining the flight qualification certificate from the Civil Aviation Organization for all the manufactured parts.

The director of this knowledge-based company added: The reverse engineering of this engine has been completely done in terms of design knowledge, but for the prototype, in terms of construction, there has been about 33% physical progress so far. Of course, in the matter of mass production of this engine, there must be customers.

Domestic aircraft repair

Rezvani stated that at the same time as reverse engineering and the construction of this engine began, the issue of repairs of the CFM engine family also began, he continued: Currently, this knowledge-based company is specialized in three areas, including engine repairs and engine accessories (MRO), engine design and engineering. (DOA) and manufacture parts (POA) and serves domestic airlines.

Pointing to the strategic importance of acquiring design knowledge in the field of air vehicle engines, he announced: Today, we are at the edge of technology and knowledge of design and manufacturing of air turbine engines. If we want to invest in the field of manufacturing all kinds of passenger plane engines; The dimensions of this investment will be very large and it needs actual customers, which is not possible in the country at the present time, and domestic airlines are not able to place orders of this size.

The director of this knowledge-based company added: "In the international market, we should also go for the international aviation industry certificates for the engine, and now we need time to start this process." Currently, we are investigating the communication and processes of obtaining the CFM engine family manufacturing and repair certificate from the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA). The process of obtaining certificates for the manufactured parts of this engine is longer than the process of obtaining the certificate for repairs of the mentioned engine due to the technical complexities and aviation safety requirements.

Rezvani clarified: In this process, the performance of the manufactured parts sample must be fully evaluated in the actual operating conditions of the engine to show that the manufactured part meets all the design expectations and has the necessary competence and safety to be installed on the passenger plane engine.

dfae4c20-f605-4600-bb6c-ae8080c90a18_PhotoA.jpg
 
MAPNA has operations all over the world..They can not LEGALLY claim that they have produced (reverse engineered) a European engine due to IP related issues .....That should tell you why this news is kept mostly under the wrapp...MAPAN produces World's most sophisticated Gas Turbines (MGT series) and exports them all over....Russian Engines are not allowed to be reversed engineered (only license production) because Iran does not want to anger Russians..no such restrictions for European or American engines.....This is the only positive point that Iran gets from being sanctioned.:)

I am not an engine guy but here is my view:
  • 1- you can make single crystal blades.
  • 2- you know how to make sophisticated Gas turbines and have the infrastructure for it
  • 3- you already have reverse Engineered digitized FADEC of this engine(that is announced officially)
  • 4- You have the actual Engines and know how to maintain it.
  • 5- You can copy its design without fear of sanctions.
  • 6- You have Talented Engineers
If I were running the show the answer would be a no brainer...JUST GIVE ME THE MONEY..:p:p

A quote from our PeeD in the old forum 3 years ago.

"For commercial high volume production Iran will go with the CFM56-5 in the future, probably with Mapna as producer.
But for limited numbers and non-commercial fighter applications, JT8D is the technology that has been mastered and is working
."
some background stuff:
Note: MAPNA improved the siemens turbine efficiency by 2.2%...if you think that is not much ..think again..To put it into context, Siemens, one of the world's biggest turbine manufacturers, introduced an E-Class turbine in the early 1990s with 37% efficiency, but it took the company over two decades to enhance the number by 3%" .

1649347565120.png

This beast above is what MAPNA builds
1724249928010.png
1724250024917.png
 
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The director of this knowledge-based company noted: After seven years of continuous efforts, we have achieved the full design knowledge of this engine. All stages of the compressor blades of this engine are reverse engineered. Most of the components of the combustion chamber of the engine and its turbine section (Hot Section) are also made. The construction of other side parts of this engine, including the engine control unit (FADEC), sensors, various precise measurement and control equipment, hydraulic and pneumatic valves and pumps, gearbox, data transmission system and cabling, etc., has also been completed.

He said: The design and manufacture of the fan blades has also been completed and now we are obtaining the flight qualification certificate from the Civil Aviation Organization for all the manufactured parts.

The director of this knowledge-based company added: The reverse engineering of this engine has been completely done in terms of design knowledge, but for the prototype, in terms of construction, there has been about 33% physical progress so far. Of course, in the matter of mass production of this engine, there must be customers.

Domestic aircraft repair

Rezvani stated that at the same time as reverse engineering and the construction of this engine began, the issue of repairs of the CFM engine family also began, he continued: Currently, this knowledge-based company is specialized in three areas, including engine repairs and engine accessories (MRO), engine design and engineering. (DOA) and manufacture parts (POA) and serves domestic airlines.

Pointing to the strategic importance of acquiring design knowledge in the field of air vehicle engines, he announced: Today, we are at the edge of technology and knowledge of design and manufacturing of air turbine engines. If we want to invest in the field of manufacturing all kinds of passenger plane engines; The dimensions of this investment will be very large and it needs actual customers, which is not possible in the country at the present time, and domestic airlines are not able to place orders of this size.

The director of this knowledge-based company added: "In the international market, we should also go for the international aviation industry certificates for the engine, and now we need time to start this process." Currently, we are investigating the communication and processes of obtaining the CFM engine family manufacturing and repair certificate from the European Union Aviation Safety Agency (EASA). The process of obtaining certificates for the manufactured parts of this engine is longer than the process of obtaining the certificate for repairs of the mentioned engine due to the technical complexities and aviation safety requirements.

Rezvani clarified: In this process, the performance of the manufactured parts sample must be fully evaluated in the actual operating conditions of the engine to show that the manufactured part meets all the design expectations and has the necessary competence and safety to be installed on the passenger plane engine.

dfae4c20-f605-4600-bb6c-ae8080c90a18_PhotoA.jpg

MAPNA has operations all over the world..They can not LEGALLY claim that they have produced (reverse engineered) a European engine due to IP related issues .....That should tell you why this news is kept mostly under the wrapp...MAPAN produces World's most sophisticated Gas Turbines (MGT series) and exports them all over....Russian Engines are not allowed to be reversed engineered (only license production) because Iran does not want to anger Russians..no such restrictions for European or American engines.....This is the only positive point that Iran gets from being sanctioned.:)

I am not an engine guy but here is my view:
  • 1- you can make single crystal blades.
  • 2- you know how to make sophisticated Gas turbines and have the infrastructure for it
  • 3- you already have reverse Engineered digitized FADEC of this engine(that is announced officially)
  • 4- You have the actual Engines and know how to maintain it.
  • 5- You can copy its design without fear of sanctions.
  • 6- You have Talented Engineers
If I were running the show the answer would be a no brainer...JUST GIVE ME THE MONEY..:p:p

A quote from our PeeD in the old forum 3 years ago.

"For commercial high volume production Iran will go with the CFM56-5 in the future, probably with Mapna as producer.
But for limited numbers and non-commercial fighter applications, JT8D is the technology that has been mastered and is working
."
some background stuff:
Note: MAPNA improved the siemens turbine efficiency by 2.2%...if you think that is not much ..think again..To put it into context, Siemens, one of the world's biggest turbine manufacturers, introduced an E-Class turbine in the early 1990s with 37% efficiency, but it took the company over two decades to enhance the number by 3%" .

1649347565120.png

This beast above is what MAPNA builds
View attachment 60533
View attachment 60536

And in 5 years when there is no commercial jet engine, what will you both say?

Iran has to prove us wrong. Anyone can claim they make a jet engine. Just like Iran can maintain fighter jet engines for decades it can do the same for commercial. So yes that requires some parts construction capability, but there is difference between manufacturing some % of the engine parts and 0 to 100% manufacturing

And if Bell did not succeed in sueing Iran then no other companies will succeed either. Also MANPAs operations are mostly in anti western countries so they aren’t really a threat to sanctions that they aren’t already psuedo under.
 
MAPNA a des opérations partout dans le monde. Ils ne peuvent pas LÉGALEMENT prétendre avoir produit (rétro-ingénierie) un moteur européen en raison de problèmes liés à la propriété intellectuelle... Cela devrait vous expliquer pourquoi cette nouvelle est gardée en grande partie secrète... MAPAN produit les turbines à gaz les plus sophistiquées au monde (série MGT) et les exporte partout... Les moteurs russes ne sont pas autorisés à être rétro-ingénierie (uniquement la production sous licence) car l'Iran ne veut pas mettre en colère les Russes... il n'y a pas de telles restrictions pour les moteurs européens ou américains... C'est le seul point positif que l'Iran retire des sanctions.:)

Je ne suis pas un passionné de moteurs, mais voici mon point de vue :
  • 1- vous pouvez fabriquer des lames monocristallines.
  • 2- vous savez fabriquer des turbines à gaz sophistiquées et disposez de l'infrastructure nécessaire
  • 3- vous avez déjà réalisé une rétro-ingénierie du FADEC numérisé de ce moteur (ce qui est annoncé officiellement)
  • 4- Vous possédez les moteurs actuels et savez les entretenir.
  • 5- Vous pouvez copier son design sans crainte de sanctions.
  • 6- Vous avez des ingénieurs talentueux
Si j'étais à la tête du projet, la réponse serait évidente... DONNEZ-MOI JUSTE DE L'ARGENT. .:p:p

Une citation de notre PeeD dans l'ancien forum il y a 3 ans.

« Pour une production commerciale à haut volume, l'Iran optera à l'avenir pour le CFM56-5, probablement avec Mapna comme producteur.
Mais pour un nombre limité d'avions et des applications de combat non commerciales, le JT8D est la technologie qui a été maîtrisée et qui fonctionne
.
quelques informations de base :
Remarque : MAPNA a amélioré l'efficacité de la turbine Siemens de 2,2 % ... si vous pensez que ce n'est pas beaucoup... détrompez-vous... Pour mettre les choses en contexte, Siemens, l'un des plus grands fabricants de turbines au monde, a introduit une turbine de classe E au début des années 1990 avec une efficacité de 37 %, mais il a fallu à l'entreprise plus de deux décennies pour améliorer ce chiffre de 3 %" .

1649347565120.png

Cette bête ci-dessus est ce que MAPNA construit
View attachment 60533


View attachment 60536
I miss PeeD because he had logic in his analysis and intuition, it is very lacking here on forums filled with speculation, a serious lack of observation and thoughtful analysis. There are some awful people to read who use a little sophistry to skid solid
 

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