Israel’s Genocide in Gaza | 2023- till present

[unconventional]

A) No there are ZERO US military bases since 20 + years ago. Those are all sovereign Saudi Arabian military bases that are occasionally used by the US as per Saudi Arabian wishes.

They are further away from Israel (Qatar, Kuwait, UAE) than US/NATO bases in Turkey, Cyprus or Israel proper. It is pointless to discuss this if you disagree with all due respect.

B) Name me 1 SINGLE Muslim nation that has closer overall economic, military, political and strategic ties with China, Russia and India (India is mostly purely economic but nevertheless they are an important non-Western nation) than KSA? There is no such Muslim nation.

C) Why did you ignore 99.99% of what I wrote? Do you support 32 year old cults who start civil wars and help undermine national institutions? Once again, how would Muslim civilization of the past (actual superpowers and worthy of respect in every way) look like if there were 100's of alternative power bases and militias?

The cult does not even control 40% of Yemen so your whole point is mute. There is plenty of resistance among people but the cult has overtaken all institutions in North Yemen and usurped power and been brainwashing locals for 10 + years.

As I wrote, they live in a completely failed entity and if locals want to live in such a shithole, it is their choice. If/when they are a threat to rest of Arabia, they will be fought. Simple as that. For all I care they are more than welcome to actually fight the Zionists but unfortunately nothing they have done, are doing or will do will change anything remotely. 18 months and 1 Israeli death. In return they have been carpet bombed numerous times. Anyway what are we even talking about here.

E) Baseless claim of no importance. If you look at all surveys and actual media reports you will see that Saudi Arabians are almost unanimously against Israel. Always been that. And quite frankly Hamas are irrelevant here and in the overall situation of the Muslim world that I described. They are just 1 element of the conflict and Palestinians. Nobody needs to agree with them on everything either politically.

a) They are not sovereign bases when the US can use them per their wishes (or KSA's wishes of tackling threats like Houthis).

US military bases in the Arab world (Jordan, Iraq, Syria) were used in tackling Iran's Operation True Promise 2. Jordan and Iraq share borders with the KSA, so the military bases are KSA are not far away from the conflict.

b) You did not answer the question of:

Can (or should) the KSA move pivot/move out of the US camp in solidarity of the Palestinian people? Yes or no would be sufficient.

c) So you regard the Houthis, the only ones standing up to Israel's genocide of Gaza, as a cult, rag-tag terrorist militia? Yes or no would be sufficient.

e) Just that you think Hamas is irrelevant shows how little you care about the people of Gaza. Saudi view of Hamas:

Saudi Arabia's Grand Mufti makes shocking statement against Hamas: "What - JFeed

Saudi Arabia's Grand Mufti, Abdul Aziz Al-Sheikh, has made a powerful statement condemning the actions of Hamas, calling their behavior - JFeed Israel News

www.jfeed.com

Saudi crown prince said he personally 'doesn't care' about Palestinian issue

Mohammed bin Salman reportedly told Antony Blinken that while he was not concerned about 'the Palestinian issue', the young Saudi population were

www.middleeasteye.net

What is the point of Saudis overall opposing Israel, when they discredit Palestinian resistance factions; and when they are not willing to pressure their government to end relations with the US (the sole supporter of Israel)?

 

[Musings]

Topic guys

 

[Mobius]

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[Mobius]

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[Mobius]

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[Mobius]

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[The SC]

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[unconventional]

Once again, you writing nonsense does not make it accurate if you continue to repeat it. For the 100th time in this thread, there are no US or any foreign military bases in KSA. Those are Saudi Arabian military bases. No Saudi Arabian military bases are used for attacks on Gaza or Palestine. Never have.

You were referring to the GCC initially and now you are talking about Syria, Iraq and Jordan. Not sure if serious.

KSA is not pivoting towards anybody but has close economic, political and strategic ties with all relevant powers in the world. KSA is a non-aligned nation for a reason.

USA cannot be ignored in the current world order and KSA is obviously working towards greater independence as any ambitious middle power out there.

Yes, I consider them as a 32 year old cult and a harm for Yemen and Yemenis overall. I don't personally care about their useless firecrackers that have not changed anything on the ground nor are they ever going to do. If you want to support losers, please do so.

No, I am saying that Hamas are completely irrelevant in terms of the overall condition of the Muslim world.

Resisting against an occupier is a natural reaction of any human being. Hamas is not unique on this front. Not sure why you want them to appear as an infallible group. The goal is a Palestinian state and for justice for Palestinians. I don't care about Fatah, Hamas or whatever group or the 100's of other political or militant groups. How hard is that to understand? If Palestine was able to become a normal country they, like every other NORMAL country, would have a national army. I prefer Muslim states to have official armies rather than militias. This seems very hard for you to understand.

As for some reported statements (likely fake) from 10 + years ago, I don't care about that and the Grand Mufti of KSA has barely spoken for 9 + years and is a guy in his 80's. I don't care about any clerics, I don't see them as "holy" people or infallible people nor does he speak for anyone but himself if such a statement is even accurate (to begin with, I highly doubt it) and in any case, the facts remain the same, virtually every survey conducted shows almost unanimous anti-Israel sentiments in KSA. Even biased anti-KSA Western media report this. Not sure who you are trying to convince of otherwise.

The article about MbS is also senseless and a baseless unanimous rumour made up. If MbS had such an opinion he would have recognized Israel long ago (as many Muslim regimes have) and developed strategic/close ties.

As for ending relations with US, which Muslim nation has ended relations with US? Care to enlighten me? Also why are you focussing this much about KSA when all of your points could be made about every single Muslim regime/nation?

And which part of my strong/harsh criticism of the Muslim world did you not understand? I included KSA/GCC/Arab world in this on numerous occasions.

I ask again, why are you making politics out of a tragedy? Do you think that any sane Muslim is content with the status quo or what is going on in Gaza and Palestine and in many other places in the Muslim world? Have you ever seen me make politics out of this tragedy which is something that many users seem to love to do in this thread?

Also stop speaking to people as if we/I were official spokesmen. Are you the official spokesman of Pakistan as well?


Utter nonsense propaganda. The creation of KSA, in other words the UNIFICATION of most of Arabia, is one of the few success stories of the Muslim world in the modern era. Occurred organically as well and without any outside influence.

As was the permanent destruction of sectarianism within the Al-Masjid Al-Haram in Makkah and Madinah where ignorant Muslims used to only pray next to their own sects/Imams based on their madahib.

Keep your failures far away from the holy land. We want nothing to do with it.

a) This will be my final post on this subject.

KSA's bases have not been used against Palestine, but they have been used against the Houthis, the only party actually willing to stand up for the Palestinians.

The GCC bases have not been used by the US right now (I have not read up on this), but they will be used in an Iran-Israel conflict.

US military bases in KSA were used by the US to defeat Saddam Hussein ("liberate" Kuwait). Saddam Hussein was also the most ardent Sunni Palestinian supporter.

The military bases in other Arab countries (Syria, Iraq, Jordan; Iraq and Jordan being KSA's neighbors) have definitely been used.

My general comment was for the Arab world, not just the GCC countries.

b) KSA is willing to keep military/financial relations with US, the US being the sole defender of Israel.

KSA offers nothing but lip service to Palestinians. It tries to discredit Hamas and other axis of resistance members, while offering Palestinians nothing but lip service.

Sure they have given money to build Palestine; but they have given far more money to the enemies of Palestine.

The Palestinians know who stands up for them (Houthis) and who offers lip service (KSA).
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Not sure why my previous post was deleted by the mods, but it was a perfect summary of our conversations.

Summary:

You/KSA are waiting for action from the rest of the Muslim world, before you take any concrete action supporting Palestinians. You are making an excuse for your inaction.

In the meanwhile, you will offer nothing more than lip service to Palestinians.

 

[Persian Gulf]

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[The SC]

a) They are not sovereign bases when the US can use them per their wishes (or KSA's wishes of tackling threats like Houthis).

US military bases in the Arab world (Jordan, Iraq, Syria) were used in tackling Iran's Operation True Promise 2. Jordan and Iraq share borders with the KSA, so the military bases are KSA are not far away from the conflict.

b) You did not answer the question of:

Can (or should) the KSA move pivot/move out of the US camp in solidarity of the Palestinian people? Yes or no would be sufficient.

c) So you regard the Houthis, the only ones standing up to Israel's genocide of Gaza, as a cult, rag-tag terrorist militia? Yes or no would be sufficient.

e) Just that you think Hamas is irrelevant shows how little you care about the people of Gaza. Saudi view of Hamas:

Saudi Arabia's Grand Mufti makes shocking statement against Hamas: "What - JFeed

Saudi Arabia's Grand Mufti, Abdul Aziz Al-Sheikh, has made a powerful statement condemning the actions of Hamas, calling their behavior - JFeed Israel News

www.jfeed.com

Saudi crown prince said he personally 'doesn't care' about Palestinian issue

Mohammed bin Salman reportedly told Antony Blinken that while he was not concerned about 'the Palestinian issue', the young Saudi population were

www.middleeasteye.net

What is the point of Saudis overall opposing Israel, when they discredit Palestinian resistance factions; and when they are not willing to pressure their government to end relations with the US (the sole supporter of Israel)?

You are missing a very important point that paralyses the whole Arab world's efforts..which is the internal Palestinian political conflict between the Palestinian authority and Hamas.. and most importantly their respective Arab and Muslim supporters.. add to it the main fact that Israel does not want any rapprochement between them..that is exactly the divide and reign theory and it is backed by no one less that the US itself..

This is like having a conflict inside the nucleus of an atom and everything around it is going bezerk.. while external forces encourage that conflict.. by all means in their possession..

 

[Persian Gulf]

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[unconventional]

You are missing a very important point that paralyses the whole Arab world's efforts..which is the internal Palestinian political conflict between the Palestinian authority and Hamas.. and most importantly their respective Arab and Muslim supporters.. add to it the main fact that Israel does not want any rapprochement between them..that is exactly the divide and reign theory and it is backed by no one less that the US itself..

This is like having a conflict inside the nucleus of an atom and everything around it is going bezerk.. while external forces encourage that conflict.. by all means in their possession..

For me, the question is:

a) What concrete actions have countries with leverage taken to try to force the US/Israel to accept a 2-state solution?

Hamas, PLO, PA, Palestinians, Hezbollah are not the ones with leverage. The ones with leverage are friendly nations that either have a peace treaty with Israel, or are very wealthy (Jordan, Egypt, GCC nations, Turkey).

If they are not taking any actions to force a 2-state solution, they are not actively doing anything to prevent the genocide of Palestinians either. Israel gets the freedom to kill any many people as they want, with not even a peep from others.

Egypt and Jordan are especially guilty in this. Since October 2023, they are the only ones that has remained unaffected, because they prefer good ties with Israel. Turkey prefers to have good relations with Israel, and only offer lip service to Palestinians. The other neighbors (Syria, Lebanon) have suffered.

b) If there is no serious effort from the Arab world to force the 2-state solution forward, and them not taking any actions to prevent the genocide; then they should not be surprised if people stand up and try to defend themselves with armed resistance (Hamas).

What do you expect the Palestinians to do? Die from Israeli weapons without fighting?


I personally support the 2-state solution (1967 borders), with both Israel and Palestine co-existing peacefully. I do not see destruction of Israel (the only Jewish majority country) as a viable option, especially in light of the Holocaust.

But there must be someone who really pushes the 2-state solution forward (which no one is really doing. The Arab world is just providing lip service for a 2-state solution); does not to force the world to accept it, using whatever leverage they can to do this.

As I see it, the Arab world is just faking it, whereas the axis of resistance (while failing) is the only one trying to do something for Palestinians.

 

[maverick]

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latest leaflets dropped on Gazans

 

[Falcon29]

37 American raids on Yemen, American crimes against the people of Yemen, and unfortunately the gloaters are Arabs who speak the same language as us and pray the same prayers as us.

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[Falcon29]

It would be very ironic if America got plunged into a civil war due to Trump administration rigging the general elections.

And Hamas outlived that. And Israel loses its baby daddy.

Then we may see the signs of God. That a people under genocide, seeking victory through him, end out on top by the end of this, and Israel, which seeks victory through America, is left to it's fate.