Israel’s Genocide in Gaza | 2023- till present
- Thread starter Ali_Baba
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Mobius
Elite Member
Are you for the recognition of the illegal and aggressive state?
hussain0216
Elite Member
The DEVIL IS IN THE DETAIL
The problem is simple
The Jews are scum, so what they will do is say We will let you have a Palestinian state, ... BUT
And that BUT is everything
-Israel will control Palestine
-israel will control the air space
-Israel will control the land borders
-Israel will keep 700,000 settlers
-Israel will keep checkpoints
-Israel will not give up Jerusalem
-Israel will control Muslim holy sites
Etc etc etc etc
The Palestinians will then naturally say NO that's unacceptable
And the Israelis will then say oh well, the Palestinians refused a state and they will then continue the oppression
The aim is to FORCE the Palestinians into a Israeli controlled rump state, where Israel will gradually apply force to make the lives of Palestinians so miserable that they naturally leave
This is because the Israeli know the PALESTINIANS ARE YOUNG with a average age of 19 and if they don't leave, the Israeli will be outnumbered
So now we have to see how smart the Arab states are, if they can help negotiate a ACTUAL free Palestinian state, with east Jerusalem as it's capital
And Muslim holy sites in Muslim hands
And no Israeli control over the sovereign state
Then FINE, their is a basis for peace
If not, then fxuk peace, The Israeli need to go from the middle east
They are losing and desperate and are scared of a middle east uniting and planning against Israel
The Israeli see the writing on the wall and they can't be let off the hook
Retribution is a must
Jango
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Well we can never be sure, but different times, diffferent outcomes? The plan now calls for third party intervention as well, which would bring about some stability, and more importantly, a stake for all the players so they all play along.
The sabotage elements on both sides do need to be kept in check.
And if not this plan, then what?
And by not signing the plan and having a Palestinian state and food for people, how will you NOT allow Israel to escape accountability?
The two aren't mutually exclusive. ICJ already has warrants out, France, Italy, Spain are trying to pursue action, did that change anything?
So what?
Why can't people accept that Israel is now a reality? Musalmano ki apni nalayeqi ki waja say aaj ham yahan pauhaunchay hain, and you cannot change reality now. So learn to coexist with it.
You want to be at war for the next 100 years? Establish two states, give the Palestinians their land, and live peacefully. Start somewhere at least or you'll just be stuck in this for generations more to come.
side-winder
Moderator
President Donald J. Trump’s Comprehensive Plan to End the Gaza Conflict:
1. Gaza will be a deradicalized terror-free zone that does not pose a threat to its neighbors.
2. Gaza will be redeveloped for the benefit of the people of Gaza, who have suffered more than enough.
3. If both sides agree to this proposal, the war will immediately end. Israeli forces will withdraw to the agreed upon line to prepare for a hostage release. During this time, all military operations, including aerial and artillery bombardment, will be suspended, and battle lines will remain frozen until conditions are met for the complete staged withdrawal.
4. Within 72 hours of Israel publicly accepting this agreement, all hostages, alive and deceased, will be returned.
5. Once all hostages are released, Israel will release 250 life sentence prisoners plus 1700 Gazans who were detained after October 7th 2023, including all women and children detained in that context. For every Israeli hostage whose remains are released, Israel will release the remains of 15 deceased Gazans.
6. Once all hostages are returned, Hamas members who commit to peaceful co-existence and to decommission their weapons will be given amnesty. Members of Hamas who wish to leave Gaza will be provided safe passage to receiving countries.
7. Upon acceptance of this agreement, full aid will be immediately sent into the Gaza Strip. At a minimum, aid quantities will be consistent with what was included in the January 19, 2025, agreement regarding humanitarian aid, including rehabilitation of infrastructure (water, electricity, sewage), rehabilitation of hospitals and bakeries, and entry of necessary equipment to remove rubble and open roads.
8. Entry of distribution and aid in the Gaza Strip will proceed without interference from the two parties through the United Nations and its agencies, and the Red Crescent, in addition to other international institutions not associated in any manner with either party. Opening the Rafah crossing in both directions will be subject to the same mechanism implemented under the January 19, 2025 agreement.
9. Gaza will be governed under the temporary transitional governance of a technocratic, apolitical Palestinian committee, responsible for delivering the day-to-day running of public services and municipalities for the people in Gaza. This committee will be made up of qualified Palestinians and international experts, with oversight and supervision by a new international transitional body, the “Board of Peace,” which will be headed and chaired by President Donald J. Trump, with other members and heads of State to be announced, including Former Prime Minister Tony Blair. This body will set the framework and handle the funding for the redevelopment of Gaza until such time as the Palestinian Authority has completed its reform program, as outlined in various proposals, including President Trump’s peace plan in 2020 and the Saudi-French proposal, and can securely and effectively take back control of Gaza. This body will call on best international standards to create modern and efficient governance that serves the people of Gaza and is conducive to attracting investment.
10. A Trump economic development plan to rebuild and energize Gaza will be created by convening a panel of experts who have helped birth some of the thriving modern miracle cities in the Middle East. Many thoughtful investment proposals and exciting development ideas have been crafted by well-meaning international groups, and will be considered to synthesize the security and governance frameworks to attract and facilitate these investments that will create jobs, opportunity, and hope for future Gaza.
11. A special economic zone will be established with preferred tariff and access rates to be negotiated with participating countries.
12. No one will be forced to leave Gaza, and those who wish to leave will be free to do so and free to return. We will encourage people to stay and offer them the opportunity to build a better Gaza.
13. Hamas and other factions agree to not have any role in the governance of Gaza, directly, indirectly, or in any form. All military, terror, and offensive infrastructure, including tunnels and weapon production facilities, will be destroyed and not rebuilt. There will be a process of demilitarization of Gaza under the supervision of independent monitors, which will include placing weapons permanently beyond use through an agreed process of decommissioning, and supported by an internationally funded buy back and reintegration program all verified by the independent monitors. New Gaza will be fully committed to building a prosperous economy and to peaceful coexistence with their neighbors.
14. A guarantee will be provided by regional partners to ensure that Hamas, and the factions, comply with their obligations and that New Gaza poses no threat to its neighbors or its people.
15. The United States will work with Arab and international partners to develop a temporary International Stabilization Force (ISF) to immediately deploy in Gaza. The ISF will train and provide support to vetted Palestinian police forces in Gaza, and will consult with Jordan and Egypt who have extensive experience in this field. This force will be the long-term internal security solution. The ISF will work with Israel and Egypt to help secure border areas, along with newly trained Palestinian police forces. It is critical to prevent munitions from entering Gaza and to facilitate the rapid and secure flow of goods to rebuild and revitalize Gaza. A deconfliction mechanism will be agreed upon by the parties.
16. Israel will not occupy or annex Gaza. As the ISF establishes control and stability, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) will withdraw based on standards, milestones, and timeframes linked to demilitarization that will be agreed upon between the IDF, ISF, the guarantors, and the Unites States, with the objective of a secure Gaza that no longer poses a threat to Israel, Egypt, or its citizens. Practically, the IDF will progressively hand over the Gaza territory it occupies to the ISF according to an agreement they will make with the transitional authority until they are withdrawn completely from Gaza, save for a security perimeter presence that will remain until Gaza is properly secure from any resurgent terror threat.
17. In the event Hamas delays or rejects this proposal, the above, including the scaled-up aid operation, will proceed in the terror-free areas handed over from the IDF to the ISF.
18. An interfaith dialogue process will be established based on the values of tolerance and peaceful co-existence to try and change mindsets and narratives of Palestinians and Israelis by emphasizing the benefits that can be derived from peace.
19. While Gaza re-development advances and when the PA reform program is faithfully carried out, the conditions may finally be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self-determination and statehood, which we recognize as the aspiration of the Palestinian people.
20. The United States will establish a dialogue between Israel and the Palestinians to agree on a political horizon for peaceful and prosperous co-existence.
1. Gaza will be a deradicalized terror-free zone that does not pose a threat to its neighbors.
2. Gaza will be redeveloped for the benefit of the people of Gaza, who have suffered more than enough.
3. If both sides agree to this proposal, the war will immediately end. Israeli forces will withdraw to the agreed upon line to prepare for a hostage release. During this time, all military operations, including aerial and artillery bombardment, will be suspended, and battle lines will remain frozen until conditions are met for the complete staged withdrawal.
4. Within 72 hours of Israel publicly accepting this agreement, all hostages, alive and deceased, will be returned.
5. Once all hostages are released, Israel will release 250 life sentence prisoners plus 1700 Gazans who were detained after October 7th 2023, including all women and children detained in that context. For every Israeli hostage whose remains are released, Israel will release the remains of 15 deceased Gazans.
6. Once all hostages are returned, Hamas members who commit to peaceful co-existence and to decommission their weapons will be given amnesty. Members of Hamas who wish to leave Gaza will be provided safe passage to receiving countries.
7. Upon acceptance of this agreement, full aid will be immediately sent into the Gaza Strip. At a minimum, aid quantities will be consistent with what was included in the January 19, 2025, agreement regarding humanitarian aid, including rehabilitation of infrastructure (water, electricity, sewage), rehabilitation of hospitals and bakeries, and entry of necessary equipment to remove rubble and open roads.
8. Entry of distribution and aid in the Gaza Strip will proceed without interference from the two parties through the United Nations and its agencies, and the Red Crescent, in addition to other international institutions not associated in any manner with either party. Opening the Rafah crossing in both directions will be subject to the same mechanism implemented under the January 19, 2025 agreement.
9. Gaza will be governed under the temporary transitional governance of a technocratic, apolitical Palestinian committee, responsible for delivering the day-to-day running of public services and municipalities for the people in Gaza. This committee will be made up of qualified Palestinians and international experts, with oversight and supervision by a new international transitional body, the “Board of Peace,” which will be headed and chaired by President Donald J. Trump, with other members and heads of State to be announced, including Former Prime Minister Tony Blair. This body will set the framework and handle the funding for the redevelopment of Gaza until such time as the Palestinian Authority has completed its reform program, as outlined in various proposals, including President Trump’s peace plan in 2020 and the Saudi-French proposal, and can securely and effectively take back control of Gaza. This body will call on best international standards to create modern and efficient governance that serves the people of Gaza and is conducive to attracting investment.
10. A Trump economic development plan to rebuild and energize Gaza will be created by convening a panel of experts who have helped birth some of the thriving modern miracle cities in the Middle East. Many thoughtful investment proposals and exciting development ideas have been crafted by well-meaning international groups, and will be considered to synthesize the security and governance frameworks to attract and facilitate these investments that will create jobs, opportunity, and hope for future Gaza.
11. A special economic zone will be established with preferred tariff and access rates to be negotiated with participating countries.
12. No one will be forced to leave Gaza, and those who wish to leave will be free to do so and free to return. We will encourage people to stay and offer them the opportunity to build a better Gaza.
13. Hamas and other factions agree to not have any role in the governance of Gaza, directly, indirectly, or in any form. All military, terror, and offensive infrastructure, including tunnels and weapon production facilities, will be destroyed and not rebuilt. There will be a process of demilitarization of Gaza under the supervision of independent monitors, which will include placing weapons permanently beyond use through an agreed process of decommissioning, and supported by an internationally funded buy back and reintegration program all verified by the independent monitors. New Gaza will be fully committed to building a prosperous economy and to peaceful coexistence with their neighbors.
14. A guarantee will be provided by regional partners to ensure that Hamas, and the factions, comply with their obligations and that New Gaza poses no threat to its neighbors or its people.
15. The United States will work with Arab and international partners to develop a temporary International Stabilization Force (ISF) to immediately deploy in Gaza. The ISF will train and provide support to vetted Palestinian police forces in Gaza, and will consult with Jordan and Egypt who have extensive experience in this field. This force will be the long-term internal security solution. The ISF will work with Israel and Egypt to help secure border areas, along with newly trained Palestinian police forces. It is critical to prevent munitions from entering Gaza and to facilitate the rapid and secure flow of goods to rebuild and revitalize Gaza. A deconfliction mechanism will be agreed upon by the parties.
16. Israel will not occupy or annex Gaza. As the ISF establishes control and stability, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) will withdraw based on standards, milestones, and timeframes linked to demilitarization that will be agreed upon between the IDF, ISF, the guarantors, and the Unites States, with the objective of a secure Gaza that no longer poses a threat to Israel, Egypt, or its citizens. Practically, the IDF will progressively hand over the Gaza territory it occupies to the ISF according to an agreement they will make with the transitional authority until they are withdrawn completely from Gaza, save for a security perimeter presence that will remain until Gaza is properly secure from any resurgent terror threat.
17. In the event Hamas delays or rejects this proposal, the above, including the scaled-up aid operation, will proceed in the terror-free areas handed over from the IDF to the ISF.
18. An interfaith dialogue process will be established based on the values of tolerance and peaceful co-existence to try and change mindsets and narratives of Palestinians and Israelis by emphasizing the benefits that can be derived from peace.
19. While Gaza re-development advances and when the PA reform program is faithfully carried out, the conditions may finally be in place for a credible pathway to Palestinian self-determination and statehood, which we recognize as the aspiration of the Palestinian people.
20. The United States will establish a dialogue between Israel and the Palestinians to agree on a political horizon for peaceful and prosperous co-existence.
Jango
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
The world has recognized Germany, Rwanda, Japan, Russia, Turks after Armenia and so on. You know why? Because it's a reality.
If you can't change the reality, then having a cute "I do not recognize you" isn't materially going to do anything.
If recognizing that state means the incessant bombing ends and some solution is reached, then hell yes.
Watandar
Trusted Member
Maybe you are new to this but this movie has been seem many times before. Mr Tony Blair who is supposed to be coming into administer Gaza is also an old hand at this scams on Palestine. Remember the Quartet ?
I recognize that holding the powerful to account isn't realistic, but you can at least try by using whatever power you have in your hands, which is trade, communication, diplomatic recognition. You don't need to just run into Israeli arms just because they are powerful and you are not.
PLO recognized Israel in 1993, what benefits did it bring them ? Israel is a reality we all know this, the problem is their behavior, the 100 years of war they have imposed on the region. You think they will stop their behavior because you recognized them and allowed them to escape any accountability for all the crimes they have committed ?
I recognize you are attracted to the dream of a "new Middle East" that supposedly will emerge with all that input from Jewish money, technology, weapons and trade and that sacrificing Palestine is ok for all that, but I think its all a mirage.
Mobius
Elite Member
So you're happy to reward genocide, illegal occupation and brutalisation of a populous. That really is a shame.
The founder of Pakistan along with the vast majority of the population don't wish to recognise that filthy state. Doing so is a violation of epic proportions which will only come back to bite the people clapping the plan on. If this deal somehow goes through, Israel will continue the war at some stage and everyone who recognised them will look like the fools that they are.
side-winder
Moderator
Pakistani PM and FM Munir get special mention by Trump during annoucing of Gaza Peace Plan
did we not do this to the afghans, to the bengalis?
and its not our problem.
F-22Raptor
Elite Member
US plan to end the war. Gaza will be free from terror
Flotilla
Trusted Member
That is not true.
Hamás fits perfectly in the academic deffinition of Resistance.
On the other hand, being created by Israel or even under their supervision, the inquestionable truth it is that if Palestine reached the maturity as new member in the UNGA it is thanks to Hamás. You have the example of the other side (West bank) where they´re dissolving like a sugar cube in your tea.
Flotilla
Trusted Member
The only way to be free from terror it is to have all Israeli cabinet in prison or under earth.
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