Israel’s Genocide in Gaza | 2023- till present

[War Lord]

I will tell you the benefit of the Hamas attack. Maybe @Indos never think this far

Before the Hamas attack, the Israelis are winning in everything:

• they had just successfully kicked the Palestinians from their homes in 1948 (the Nakba)
• they have won the war with the Arabs and even finally able to make some Arab nations (Egypt, Jordan) to recognize them, thereby giving them relieve they desperately crave, for the first time in millennia, the Jews has their homeland and their homeland is safe from external attacks
• Not only that, the manpower and energy that was previosuly used to secure the border from foreign aggressors could be re-directed inward, to expand israeli settlement inside Palestinian land
• Then they secure relationships with Qatar, UAE, Morocco, Bahrain...the list of Arab-Muslim countries just keep on increasing, legitimizing their occupation of Palestine

But this surely is not complete, because the Palestinian issue is either an issue for :

• Arabs nationalists
• Muslims

The Arab nationalists have been successfully subdued, with the recognition of Israel in the Camp David Accords followed by the waves of 'normalization' later on, but not the Muslims. Because the Muslims are not just Arabs, there are Turks, Bangladeshis, Indonesians, and Malaysians. There's always a possibility that these non-Arab Muslims could be a headache for the Israeli occupation in the future.

Just before the Hamas attack, the Israelis are this close

View attachment 22256

Into total political victory against the Palestinians when the rumor that Saudi Arabia (considered to be the leader of the Muslim world due to their ownership of the 2 holy cities) are going to normalize with Israel, in line with the 'de-Islamization drive' of Bin Salman and his gang. And we (back then) knew that this is just a matter of time.

If Saudi Arabia eventually normalizes, then it is 99.999% guaranteed that Indonesia will be next in line to recognize israel.

Now you have :

1. Saudi Arabia, the custodian of the two holy cities and de-facto leader of Sunni Islam
2. Indonesia, the largest country by Muslim population

And Israel political victory against Palestine is complete because if these two eventually normalize, there's very little incentive for other Muslim countries not to normalize.

Why is the Muslim world important ? Why spend the effort for the likes of Indonesia, a country thousands of miles away that lacked the projecting power to shape the Middle East?

Simple, because of the two, I listed before (Arabs and Islam). The Israelis recognize that their long-term threat is not those looney (secular) Arabs nationalists, but it's Islam. Especially their youths.

In recent times, there has been some sort of 'return to religion' movements sweeping around the Muslim world.

Many of these Muslims who lived in demographically Muslims nation, but ruled by secular rulers and rules are now figuring out that they NEED Islam, following Islam is suddenly cool again after the mass secularization that happened in Muslim lands in the 1950s-2000s. And with that, the rise of political Islam.

Political Islam is the biggest long term threat to Israel, because had the balance of power turn, and the Islamic world eventually regain their position back on top like it used to, it is these political Islamists that will sure turn the energy and potential of Muslims all around the world towards the destruction of the state of Israel.

This alarms Israel so much because, unlike Arab nationalists who they could just negotiate with, they could not negotiate Palestine with Muslims. Palestine is home to the third holiest site in Islam which is Jerusalem and it Aqsa complex, the first Qibla where Muslim first prayed. No amount of money and worldly benefits offered by Washington could buy that, they could not replicate a David accord with the Muslims.

So this is where Saudi Arabia comes in.

As we all know, Saudi Arabia is exporting its version of Islam, the Salafism/some call it Wahabbism. Salafism is many, but one of the more prominent one coming from (and exported by) Saudi Arabia is a sect called the Madkhalism. Madkhalism put heavy emphassis on Sami'na wastato'na (we hear and we obey the ruler).

Madkhalism offered the Israelis a chance to steer the 1.5B muslims world wide into accepting their occupation of Palestine, even if the Muslim doesn't want to.

This is a piece by an Israeli newspaper, The Times of Israel called ' Is Madkhalism a friend of Israel ?'

https://muslimskeptic.com/2023/12/29/madkhalis-friends-of-israel/

Which argues that Madkhalism will help them secure their occupation of Palestine without worry, simply because the Madkhalis will accept anything that a Muslim ruler does, including normalizing with Israel.

The brilliant Hamas attacks prevented all those from happening. The Muslims will not accept anything the Madkhalis spew in regards to normalization to Israel and neither will acts of 'friendships' like this below will be tolerated by the public, at least for 50-100 years to come.

Not after the barbaric Israeli attacks on civilians in Gaza

So yes, Hamas attacks pays off.

The long term implication of this attacks will be appreciated by Arabs and Muslims worldwide long into the future

Exactly, your fellow countrymen like Indos and Antonious123 should read this.

 

[Antonius123]

I will tell you the benefit of the Hamas attack. Maybe @Indos never think this far

Before the Hamas attack, the Israelis are winning in everything:

• they had just successfully kicked the Palestinians from their homes in 1948 (the Nakba)
• they have won the war with the Arabs and even finally able to make some Arab nations (Egypt, Jordan) to recognize them, thereby giving them relieve they desperately crave, for the first time in millennia, the Jews has their homeland and their homeland is safe from external attacks
• Not only that, the manpower and energy that was previosuly used to secure the border from foreign aggressors could be re-directed inward, to expand israeli settlement inside Palestinian land
• Then they secure relationships with Qatar, UAE, Morocco, Bahrain...the list of Arab-Muslim countries just keep on increasing, legitimizing their occupation of Palestine

But this surely is not complete, because the Palestinian issue is either an issue for :

• Arabs nationalists
• Muslims

The Arab nationalists have been successfully subdued, with the recognition of Israel in the Camp David Accords followed by the waves of 'normalization' later on, but not the Muslims. Because the Muslims are not just Arabs, there are Turks, Bangladeshis, Indonesians, and Malaysians. There's always a possibility that these non-Arab Muslims could be a headache for the Israeli occupation in the future.

Just before the Hamas attack, the Israelis are this close

View attachment 22256

Into total political victory against the Palestinians when the rumor that Saudi Arabia (considered to be the leader of the Muslim world due to their ownership of the 2 holy cities) are going to normalize with Israel, in line with the 'de-Islamization drive' of Bin Salman and his gang. And we (back then) knew that this is just a matter of time.

If Saudi Arabia eventually normalizes, then it is 99.999% guaranteed that Indonesia will be next in line to recognize israel.

Now you have :

1. Saudi Arabia, the custodian of the two holy cities and de-facto leader of Sunni Islam
2. Indonesia, the largest country by Muslim population

And Israel political victory against Palestine is complete because if these two eventually normalize, there's very little incentive for other Muslim countries not to normalize.

Why is the Muslim world important ? Why spend the effort for the likes of Indonesia, a country thousands of miles away that lacked the projecting power to shape the Middle East?

Simple, because of the two, I listed before (Arabs and Islam). The Israelis recognize that their long-term threat is not those looney (secular) Arabs nationalists, but it's Islam. Especially their youths.

In recent times, there has been some sort of 'return to religion' movements sweeping around the Muslim world.

Many of these Muslims who lived in demographically Muslims nation, but ruled by secular rulers and rules are now figuring out that they NEED Islam, following Islam is suddenly cool again after the mass secularization that happened in Muslim lands in the 1950s-2000s. And with that, the rise of political Islam.

Political Islam is the biggest long term threat to Israel, because had the balance of power turn, and the Islamic world eventually regain their position back on top like it used to, it is these political Islamists that will sure turn the energy and potential of Muslims all around the world towards the destruction of the state of Israel.

This alarms Israel so much because, unlike Arab nationalists who they could just negotiate with, they could not negotiate Palestine with Muslims. Palestine is home to the third holiest site in Islam which is Jerusalem and it Aqsa complex, the first Qibla where Muslim first prayed. No amount of money and worldly benefits offered by Washington could buy that, they could not replicate a David accord with the Muslims.

So this is where Saudi Arabia comes in.

As we all know, Saudi Arabia is exporting its version of Islam, the Salafism/some call it Wahabbism. Salafism is many, but one of the more prominent one coming from (and exported by) Saudi Arabia is a sect called the Madkhalism. Madkhalism put heavy emphassis on Sami'na wastato'na (we hear and we obey the ruler).

Madkhalism offered the Israelis a chance to steer the 1.5B muslims world wide into accepting their occupation of Palestine, even if the Muslim doesn't want to.

This is a piece by an Israeli newspaper, The Times of Israel called ' Is Madkhalism a friend of Israel ?'

https://muslimskeptic.com/2023/12/29/madkhalis-friends-of-israel/

Which argues that Madkhalism will help them secure their occupation of Palestine without worry, simply because the Madkhalis will accept anything that a Muslim ruler does, including normalizing with Israel.

The brilliant Hamas attacks prevented all those from happening. The Muslims will not accept anything the Madkhalis spew in regards to normalization to Israel and neither will acts of 'friendships' like this below will be tolerated by the public, at least for 50-100 years to come.

Not after the barbaric Israeli attacks on civilians in Gaza

So yes, Hamas attacks pays off.

The long term implication of this attacks will be appreciated by Arabs and Muslims worldwide long into the future

Exactly, your fellow countrymen like Indos and Antonious123 should read this.

LOL. The fact Arabs is not supporting Hamas

Many Arab governments would like to see Hamas gone

And they worry that the war in Gaza will upset their economic plans

www.economist.com

+ world start to agree with US views that Hamas is terrorist group due to the attack on 7th oct + Gaza ruins 7 waiting new government replacing Hamas.

So @Indos is correct that the cost Gaza has to pay exceed the benefit they obtain from the 7th Oct attack.

 

[Raiden]

LOL. The fact Arabs is not supporting Hamas

Many Arab governments would like to see Hamas gone

And they worry that the war in Gaza will upset their economic plans

www.economist.com

Yes, this has not passed my observation, this is why I said the ones who will decide this 'Palestine question' is people who make Islam their 'esprit de corps' and that is independent of what the leaders of their country think.

If the legitimacy of struggle lies in the hands of puppet leaders, then Saladin wouldn't go to war, and the Muslims wouldn't follow his lead to liberate Jerusalem.

Mind to tell you, that the Christian Crusaders that occupy Jerusalem for 88 years (1099-1187)has a pretty good relationship with the Governor of nearby Damascus and Aleppo.

+ world start to agree with US views that Hamas is terrorist group due to the attack on 7th oct + Gaza ruins 7 waiting new government replacing Hamas.

So @Indos is correct that the cost Gaza has to pay exceed the benefit they obtain from the 7th Oct attack.

The Islamic world was on its way to legitimize Israel, it started to gain traction with the Abraham accord with the UAE at its spearhead, and they brought Bahrain as well. But in the grand scheme of things, these are tiny additions with no real strategic benefit. Neither the UAE/Bahrain constitute a big enough political victory of Israel, simply because their size and influence.

When the Abraham accord was signed everyone was waiting for Saudi Arabia to follow, the same way a crowd is waiting for a crown prince to be throned, the media and the cleric in Saudi Arabia started to 'notify' through their sermons and writings preparing to smoothen the Saudis for an eventual normalization.

And this eventually came to Indonesia, the largest Muslim country in the World. Had anyone of you noticed, in 2020-before October 7th, the Media started to aggressively tease the 'benefit' of normalization with Israel. In hope that after Saudi Arabia, Indonesia (and then the rest of the world) will eventually follow up.

This op-ed came just 3 days before the brilliant 7th October attack by Hamas, arguing that Indonesia stands to gain with normalization + bullshits that we can help Palestinian cause...by recognizing Israel

Normalisasi Hubungan Diplomatik Israel-Indonesia, Why Not?

Oleh Alessandro D P Simaremare

kumparan.com

here's an I24 interview, enthusiastically arguing that Indonesia's national ideology, Pancasila, will smoothen the eventual recognition of Israel (watch 2:10)

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Everything seems ready for Israel and Netanyahu to walk the red carpet of victory. With Saudi Arabia as the spiritual leader and Indonesia as the largest Muslim manpower, what else could other smaller and less influential Muslim like Malaysia, Bangladesh, Pakistan etc argue when the owner of Mecca and Medina + the largest Muslim countries finally succumb to normalization?

But then 7th October attack comes, Hamas knows this attack will trigger the most far-right and the most racist government in Israel's cabinet since its foundation. They know exactly what will be the retaliation against innocent civilians.

It's been 5 months since then and yes, as the days goes by, the ability of Bin Salman to tell his populace that normalization is 'OK' is drying up. The Indonesian government itself already declare that they won't normalize with Israel until Israel comes up with a two-state solution (impossible).

The Indonesian government comes up with the statement not out of love of the Palestinian people, in fact, Jakarta has a pretty good relation with the Zionist state since at least the 80s. Here's a picture of a 'Israeli' pilot in an A-4 SKyhawk flying in the Red Sea (1986)

except that this pilot is Indonesian, Marshall Djoko Poerwoko

So we know that Jakarta really doesn't have a problem with Israel, It's just for Jakarta to fully normalize relations with Israel, the domestic cost coming from angry Muslims will outweigh the benefit of open recognition of Israel. And the 7th October attack and the subsequent Israeli murder campaign will make Jakarta even more difficult than it already is to normalize with Israel.

So Hamas helps us here by making sure that Jakarta will not step out of the line in regard to normalization. No Indonesian president will want to provoke the anger of 240 million Muslims back when everything is OK, and certainly they won't after their Muslim population watch the barbarity of the IDF.

 

[VCheng]

The Muslims are a nation of 1.5 billion (and growing), Jews are a mere 15 million,

And yet look at their productivity and look at our productivity of this fictional "nation" of 1.5 billion. Quantity by itself obviously means nothing. The current conflict is a mere byproduct of being such losers.

 

[Musings]

Muslims do hate jews, as a muslim myself I testify to this.

In fact every day we pray to Allah to please do not make us like the Jews. Every time we pray we say this in our prayer to remind us that they are not our friend/ally/brother whatsoever

ṣirāṭallażīna an'amta 'alaihim gairil-magḍụbi 'alaihim wa laḍ-ḍāllīn

"(God) do not make us like people whom you anger and let astray (ie. Jews and Christians)

And the Gaza war will make sure this hatred to be nurtured. Now that we have video footage to remind what kind of barbarians these Jews are.

Speak for yourself. Don’t attempt to talk for ALL Muslims. I don’t have hatred for Jews and have many friends that are Jewish. Stop generalising and showing all of us in fact you ain’t no Muslim…..

 

[VCheng]

The Chinese in 1937 is in that very position, big, scattered and ruled into different warlord and getting absolutely spanked by small but highly advanced Japan. Very similar to what has become of the Islamic civilizations now

Yet, China survived to fight another day. And the rest is history.

Do not, I repeat, DO NOT forecast the future on the current state of affairs. It took China 40 years from a backwater to a towering giant, it took 100 years for UK to be reduced from the days of Pax Britannica to become an American sidekick which struggles to send even 1 operational carrier without breaking down.

Please do note China is an atheist country. Your analogy is meaningless.

 

[Raiden]

Please do note China is an atheist country. Your analogy is meaningless.

It doesn't matter, because I'm not talking about theologies. My entire point is that, just because everything is shit, doesn't mean it will stay that way. In 1994, the Armenians are all victorious, the larger Azerbaijan was defeated and humiliated, its land, grabbed and emptied of people. Yet, Azerbaijan lives to fight another day, and the rest is history.

The trend is clear, the Muslims are here to stay. It grows and WILL be the largest religion of the human race at some point in time.

For Israel this is a worrying trend, because while the Muslim stays, there's no guarantee that their American daddy will stay, in fact like all empires, the US WILL eventually DIE. And then what's next for Israel ? Do they really think we will let them stay there and be a thorn in our eye ?

For a country that depend on borrowing power from foreign state, Israel does exhibit some very unwise haught that we, Muslims will make sure they pay.

 

[VCheng]

The trend is clear, the Muslims are here to stay. It grows and WILL be the largest religion of the human race at some point in time.

As I said before, quantity is meaningless.

 

[Raiden]

As I said before, quantity is meaningless.

The Ukrainian commissars dragging men from busses to be send against Putin will disagree with you.

Number do translate to potential. Most of the time, it's just waiting for the right time and opportunity

 

[VCheng]

Number do translate to potential.

Potential that remains unrealized is utterly meaningless.

 

[Raiden]

It's good that you've admitted your intentions, it's precisely because of such comments that I support Israel against HamAss! And that's exactly why the world needs to help Israel so that your desires don't come to fruition. By the way, the free world has over 1.5 billion people and is significantly wealthier.

Besides, I'd bet you won't lift a finger so I'm not sure why you're using "we".

I am the MOST honest Muslim in this forum, I'm not mincing my word. I don't use diplomatic lipstick, because my opponents simply won't as well.

You can support Israel, I'm fine with that. I do not find any anger for anyone who supports Israel, even after showing such barbarity.

In the end, people will defend people closest to what they believe, look, think, eat etc. You do what you do, we will do what we'll do.

But one thing for sure, the American empire will eventually retreat, just like all great empires of the past and I have made it clear that it is something that unites Muslims from around the world to see Israel gone. We waited 88 years for the Christian crusader to surrender humbly in front of Saladin, the occupation of Palestine is only in its 75th anniversary. So we have much time and we have much men. We could afford mistake

Potential that remains unrealized is utterly meaningless.

Yes, in 1937 the potential of young Chinese men would have to wait until the 1980s

 

[Indos]

It's good that you've admitted your intentions, it's precisely because of such comments that I support Israel against HamAss! And that's exactly why the world needs to help Israel so that your desires don't come to fruition. By the way, the free world has over 1.5 billion people and is significantly wealthier.

Besides, I'd bet you won't lift a finger so I'm not sure why you're using "we".

He is Indian Hindus. How on earth he can be really dilligent posting in here, I mean no way I would do that. Morelikely paid propaganda or do it based on his religious reason (defeaming Islam and want badly to see Muslim and Christian dont have good relation)

Killing innnocent and non combatant is huge sins in Islam and can be seen on Quran and Hadith.

And no Indonesia is always in the side of Palestinian and Today we are a democratic country, no way any gov support Israel.

Regarding buying Israel second hand Skyhawk it was during Soeharto regime and due to pragmatic reasons because it is cheap ( due to Israel will abandon it and buy F16) and our Soviet union planes are all grounded due to Soeharto regime is anti Communist

 

[VCheng]

Yes, in 1937 the potential of young Chinese men would have to wait until the 1980s

LOL. They realized it NOT because they have religion. Your example fails again.

 

[Raiden]

He is Indian Hindus. How on earth he can be really dilligent posting in here, I mean no way I would do that.

Indeed all actions of mankind will be held accountable, this accusation of yours will be your burden to proof in the day of judgement.

LOL. They realized it NOT because they have religion. Your example fails again.

I mean if simply explaining that your accusations that relative backwardness will stay that way forever whilst real-life examples show the otherwise and you came up with a desperate 'grabbing the straw' argument, the weight of failure rests on you mate.

 

[VCheng]

I mean if simply explaining that your accusations that relative backwardness will stay that way forever whilst real-life examples show the otherwise and you came up with a desperate 'grabbing the straw' argument, the weight of failure rests on you mate.

ROFL. I have not made any accusations, but only pointed out that your claims and examples have all been meaningless.