J-31 to be inducted soon| Pilot training reportedly in progress

[last-soul]

Dude how do you know I'm Indian ? I'm Pakistani living in USA since 2017, I can prove you that I'm Pakistani, we sell our house in karachi last month, I can give you my former address of our house in karachi Pakistan, you can search this address on Google earth or on Google map

Bro keep your ID hidden online - dont expose yourself just because you want to prove to some random person online who you are.

 

[Michael]

I totally agree with you "the ultimate judge of claims", but my problem is, while the one side only claims, I and a few others explain why it is unlikely, we raise several questions and concerns and all we get in reply are wrong numbers of flying prototypes, offensive replies in the meaning of "as if we would like to belittle Pakistan" and still none of these concerns is even addressed.

It all reminds me to a similar harsh discussion a few years ago where similar guys claimed and even swore "we'll get J-20, J-16 even J-15 + the Liaoning and UK's Eurofighter "soon", they are in fact already in Pakistan secretly operating off a secret base" ... again endless stupid discussions, many concerns and explanations why it cannot be and always the same stupid "brother, I know it and you are only a foreigner!"

In the end if these claims will be true, it would mean: China develops the J-31 for Pakistan on its own cost, will deliver them to Pakistan long before it gets its own first J-35 which has an advance of two years in testing and - according to some here - most likely pays for them too on its own!

And now tell me how likely this is? ... exactly as likely as getting J-20, J-16 even J-15 + the Liaoning and UK's Eurofighter "soon"

The one who's making claims, the sky is green should explain and not the one who disagrees!

On the whole, I agree with you.

My personal guess is: the original source of the news, an internal speech by a high-ranking officer of the PAF. PAF was supposed to negotiate with SAC on an FC31 deal, but it didn't sign it. For some purpose, the general directly used the phrase "coming soon". This is a typical military ambiguity tactic.

According to my analysis of the current China-Pakistan relationship, the current Pakistani government has mishandled many issues with China, and the Chinese government has many complaints. Therefore, for the time being, we will not agree to buy FC31 in the form of a loan. Pakistan's current financial problems are already very serious, and it does not have this fund, and there is no other source of funding.

Judging from the current air force of India and Pakistan, J10C and Rafale can basically achieve a balance between the two sides. Is it necessary to upset this balance with FC31? The Chinese government needs to think deeper.

 

[Deino]

On the whole, I agree with you.

My personal guess is: the original source of the news, an internal speech by a high-ranking officer of the PAF. PAF was supposed to negotiate with SAC on an FC31 deal, but it didn't sign it. For some purpose, the general directly used the phrase "coming soon". This is a typical military ambiguity tactic.

According to my analysis of the current China-Pakistan relationship, the current Pakistani government has mishandled many issues with China, and the Chinese government has many complaints. Therefore, for the time being, we will not agree to buy FC31 in the form of a loan. Pakistan's current financial problems are already very serious, and it does not have this fund, and there is no other source of funding.

Judging from the current air force of India and Pakistan, J10C and Rafale can basically achieve a balance between the two sides. Is it necessary to upset this balance with FC31? The Chinese government needs to think deeper.

Thanks a lot for this most resalable and balanced reply. I can only applaud you and agree with it!

 

[MH.Yang]

I have always thought it is not in Pakistan's interest to get 5G fighters before India.

If Pakistan gets 5G fighters later than India, PAF's rival could be AMCA.

If Pakistan gets 5G fighters earlier than India, India is likely to get F35 at any cost.

 

[Michael]

If Pakistan gets 5G fighters later than India, PAF's rival could be AMCA.

If Pakistan gets 5G fighters earlier than India, India is likely to get F35 at any cost.

Ha...........Ha............

This is a very interesting point.

Personally, I'd love to see FC31 vs F35, it's going to be a very good matchup.

FC31 VS AMCA, this is a dimensionality reduction blow, nothing to see.

 

[Be dazzled]

Batch of 10 officers in Shangyang (SAC) for over six months. Wonder what they are doing there.

 

[UKBengali]

Judging from the current air force of India and Pakistan, J10C and Rafale can basically achieve a balance between the two sides. Is it necessary to upset this balance with FC31? The Chinese government needs to think deeper.

This is not correct.

India will end up with many more Rafales than the PAF can afford J-10Cs.

It has an economy like 10x larger than Pakistan.

What it needs is a much superior fighter in small amounts and that is where the J-31 comes in.

 

[Yasser76]

I have always thought it is not in Pakistan's interest to get 5G fighters before India.

If Pakistan gets 5G fighters later than India, PAF's rival could be AMCA.

If Pakistan gets 5G fighters earlier than India, India is likely to get F35 at any cost.

I think we may be overestimating India's ability here. Access to F-35 that could possibly compromise it would not go down well with other key US allies

 

[Michael]

This is not correct.

India will end up with many more Rafales than the PAF can afford J-10Cs.

It has an economy like 10x larger than Pakistan.

What it needs is a much superior fighter in small amounts and that is where the J-31 comes in.

That's not how the strategy is deployed.

The PAF can use all of the J10C to deal with the IAF; The IAF can only use part of the Rafale to cope with the PAF, more Rafale and other fighters need to cope with the more powerful PLAAF deployed in Tibet and Xinjiang.

If the IAF uses all of its power for the PAF, the huge number of J10Cs equipped by the PLAAF can be supplied directly to the PAF. When China thinks the time has come, PLAAF may enter the war directly.

 

[Quwa]

This is not correct.

India will end up with many more Rafales than the PAF can afford J-10Cs.

It has an economy like 10x larger than Pakistan.

What it needs is a much superior fighter in small amounts and that is where the J-31 comes in.

IMO...

The PAF has a specific goal number of J-10CEs in mind, and that number accounts for a large IAF Rafale fleet.

That number is 90 to 150, depending on availability of funds and the remaining duration of J-10CE production in China.

The floor of 90 might seem small relative to a theoretically large IAF Rafale fleet, but the Russia-Ukraine War shows that one's employment, sortie rates, aircraft availability, etc., matter too.

Moreover, the PAF will also leverage a robust land-based air defence system consisting of long-range and medium-range SAMs, which was never a factor in the heyday of the F-16 era. So, the stress on the fighter fleet now is much less.

As for the J-31. I don't think the PAF views it as this big game-changer (as it had the F-16) because there are now so many different systems involved in modern air warfare. Rather, the PAF is seeking the J-31 for a specific role - offensive operations.

On paper, the J-31 looks like a good platform to support Swift Retort-type operations, especially when used alongside UCAVs (Bayraktar Kizilelma?). Those operations need the right assets so as to improve their chances of success, which could have key impacts on any war in the future (e.g., a strike in one area may delay an Indian IBG by 1-2 weeks, giving crucial space to the Pak Army to do something, etc).

 

[UKBengali]

That's not how the strategy is deployed.

The PAF can use all of the J10C to deal with the IAF; The IAF can only use part of the Rafale to cope with the PAF, more Rafale and other fighters need to cope with the more powerful PLAAF deployed in Tibet and Xinjiang.

If the IAF uses all of its power for the PAF, the huge number of J10Cs equipped by the PLAAF can be supplied directly to the PAF. When China thinks the time has come, PLAAF may enter the war directly.

Where are the pilots going to be coming from?

In modern BVR duels, pilots nearly always die.

 

[Michael]

Where are the pilots going to be coming from?

In modern BVR duels, pilots nearly always die.

What we do know is this: at any time there are servicemen from Pakistan somewhere in China.

As for how many people? In what place? What are you doing? We don't know................ Maybe you can ask the Pakistani military or the PLA and see if they will tell you..................

 

[UKBengali]

What we do know is this: at any time there are servicemen from Pakistan somewhere in China.

As for how many people? In what place? What are you doing? We don't know................ Maybe you can ask the Pakistani military or the PLA and see if they will tell you..................

You have not answered my question as to where the pilots are coming from if China was to give PAF many more planes during war.

Yes they will have some spare pilots for maybe 10 or even 20 more planes, but the nature of BVR warfare means that nearly all shot down pilots die as the missile hits right at the front of the plane.

No airforce can afford or is able to train 2-3x more pilots than they have jets.

 

[Michael]

You have not answered my question as to where the pilots are coming from if China was to give PAF many more planes during war.

Yes they will have some spare pilots for maybe 10 or even 20 more planes, but the nature of BVR warfare means that nearly all shot down pilots die as the missile hits right at the front of the plane.

No airforce can afford or is able to train 2-3x more pilots than they have jets.

You need to add some military common sense.

The ratio of pilots to fighters varies from country to country, and will be adjusted during special periods. The vast majority of countries have more pilots than fighters, and a very small number of countries have more fighters than pilots (i.e., a severe shortage of pilots).

Publicly available information: 1.5:1 for IAF, 2.5:1 for PAF, 1.5:1 for PLA

The reality of the PLA: The PLA has a tradition of personnel waiting for equipment. Therefore, in recent years, the actual ratio of PLA pilots to fighters is between 3~6:1. At the same time, the PLA requires all pilots to be able to fly at least 3 types of fighters.

I think there should be a similar situation with PAF. If the PAF plans to equip 100 J10C, then at least 300 Pakistani pilots can operate the J10C

Most of the modern advanced fighter jets are controlled by computers, and the requirements for the pilot's manual control ability have been reduced a lot, and the pilot is more often judging the data instrument and making decisions, rather than constantly controlling the aircraft. It requires pilots to have more intellectual abilities than manual abilities.

It is faster and easier to train people who already have a higher degree to become fighter pilots than before.

 

[MastanKhan]

On the whole, I agree with you.

My personal guess is: the original source of the news, an internal speech by a high-ranking officer of the PAF. PAF was supposed to negotiate with SAC on an FC31 deal, but it didn't sign it. For some purpose, the general directly used the phrase "coming soon". This is a typical military ambiguity tactic.

According to my analysis of the current China-Pakistan relationship, the current Pakistani government has mishandled many issues with China, and the Chinese government has many complaints. Therefore, for the time being, we will not agree to buy FC31 in the form of a loan. Pakistan's current financial problems are already very serious, and it does not have this fund, and there is no other source of funding.

Judging from the current air force of India and Pakistan, J10C and Rafale can basically achieve a balance between the two sides. Is it necessary to upset this balance with FC31? The Chinese government needs to think deeper.

Hi,

Your analysis is INCORRECT---shows you do not know much about pakistan's relationship with china.

tTere is a MAJOR flaw in your reasoning---.

China is not interested in creating balance---but rather finding out how the J31 would perform against adversary by Pak air force---.

Chinese air force desperately needs a second opinion from a top tier air force against a very capable adversary---.

Pakistan's civilians have separate relationship with chinese govt than the pak military and chinese military complex.