JF-17 PFX program

[FuturePAF]

Instead of having a loyal wingman that has a human piloted version... Why not have a traditional manned fighter jet with a loyal wingman design... Like having a loyal wingman L-15 or even early JF-17s being converted to loyal wingmans.. the A.I would have a feast with all the flight data that could be fed to it over time and can result in better situational performance ?!?

That’s what I’m going for, initially. A manned fighter that can be converted into a loyal wingman. But later on it would need the cockpit redesigned to optimize it with a decent AI system addition to the avionics, advanced comms and fuel to be able to operate for longer and be able to be resilient to comms jamming and be able to make faster decision to threats.

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[Gordon2003]

PFX mockup. Notice the small reshaped canopy and wingtip mounted MRAAM


View attachment 67297

Hi,Dazzler!I have been researching for a long time for the JF17 wingtip BVR missile ability, I found in your response to one of your posts on PakistanDefense.pk in 2010 (Here is the link: https://defence.pk/threads/jf-17-thunder-multirole-fighter-thread-3.32359/page-69#post-668661) that you said that one of your Jf17 pilot friends said that JF17 has the capability to carry BVR missiles at wing-tip stations,At the same time I saw a similar claim on a CG image that JF17 can mount SD10 on the wingtips, I have been looking for images of JF17 with SD10 on the wingtips in real life, but so far I have found nothing... I wonder if there is any public information in reality about JF17 being able to mount BVR missiles on the wingtips? And if JF17 can mount BVR missiles on the wingtips, why hasn't the PAF done so once? (Just curious, as this reduces the positive RCS and reduces aerodynamic drag)Looking forward four your reply!Thanks a lot!

 

[FuturePAF]

Any chance the PFX will adopt a M61 style rotary cannon, better at a2a and more streamlined with the body. (I know the AMX is an Air to ground aircraft). The following picture is from the Italian AMX so we can see the M61 can fit in a modern small aircraft.

Pakistan could probably consult Aeromacchi to get this design or something similar on to a JF-17 Block 2 as a test bed; either on the nose or at the same position it is on the F-16, just behind the pilot’s left shoulder.

The modern Russian Gsh-6-23 a 23 mm rotary cannon could be added to the JF-17. It is currently in use on the MiG-31.

The knowledge gained from this could be applied to putting a rotary cannon on the J-31 and PFX.

Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-6-23 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

Any chance the PFX will adopt a M61 style rotary cannon, better at a2a and more streamlined with the body. (I know the AMX is an Air to ground aircraft). The following picture is from the Italian AMX so we can see the M61 can fit in a modern small aircraft.

Pakistan could probably consult Aeromacchi to get this design or something similar on to a JF-17 Block 2 as a test bed; either on the nose or at the same position it is on the F-16, just behind the pilot’s left shoulder.

The modern Russian Gsh-6-23 a 23 mm rotary cannon could be added to the JF-17. It is currently in use on the MiG-31.

The knowledge gained from this could be applied to putting a rotary cannon on the J-31 and PFX.

Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-6-23 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

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View attachment 73323

If I am not wrong JF17 Cannon is more optimize for A2G than A2A. Cannon use for A2A is very limited now.

 

[FuturePAF]

If I am not wrong JF17 Cannon is more optimize for A2G than A2A. Cannon use for A2A is very limited now.

I have heard the same, the JF-17’s auto-cannon is optimized for A2G.

Nowadays, 23 mm Cannon use is limited in A2G. The rotary cannon can put more rounds in the air, and that is probably enough to deal with smaller targets in modern A2A, like drones/cruise missiles.

IMHO, the P-FX should be optimized for A2A combat, and for that the PAF should consider a rotary cannon like the M61 Vulcan. Considering PAF’s over 60 year experience with the M61, they would probably know better than most, when they are shifting from an economical choice to a more optimal choice.

 

[Bentley777]

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approach pak airforce is doing doesnot make sense . They are getting j31 and possibly kaan. Then whats the point of dumping resources on pfx. It was better to get kaan in 2030 late with assembly line in pak with some local subsystems. In this video he is saying prototype will be flying in 5 to 6 years lets take 10 years means 2035. This is the time line in which kaan can be ready or near to ready. What will happen to jf17 is also a question?and lastly we cannot tell what will happen in next year in pakistan how can paf can plan for next 5 to 10 years. We can get bankcorrupt in mean time there is possibility which can make project hanging in turmoil. Too ambitious from PAF it looks.

 

[Ali_Baba]

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approach pak airforce is doing doesnot make sense . They are getting j31 and possibly kaan. Then whats the point of dumping resources on pfx. It was better to get kaan in 2030 late with assembly line in pak with some local subsystems. In this video he is saying prototype will be flying in 5 to 6 years lets take 10 years means 2035. This is the time line in which kaan can be ready or near to ready. What will happen to jf17 is also a question?and lastly we cannot tell what will happen in next year in pakistan how can paf can plan for next 5 to 10 years. We can get bankcorrupt in mean time there is possibility which can make project hanging in turmoil. Too ambitious from PAF it looks.

The point of PFX is to build in Pakistan , home grown talent to design and build jets in Pakistan. PFX is focused on more home grown systems in the platform.

If you carry on down this path, then one day, Pakistan can build Kaan II in Pakistan ? These things are progressive, iterative and take time. Look at how India has been building jets with full TOT and how even with all that, how hard it was for them to do the Tejas programme?? Time, money, blood and sweat for the next 20dd years and then Pakistan could design a jet in Pakistan…

Pakistan will make some mistakes for sure, but you have to stick to the goal and you will get there.

 

[Deino]

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approach pak airforce is doing doesnot make sense . They are getting j31 and possibly kaan. Then whats the point of dumping resources on pfx. It was better to get kaan in 2030 late with assembly line in pak with some local subsystems. In this video he is saying prototype will be flying in 5 to 6 years lets take 10 years means 2035. This is the time line in which kaan can be ready or near to ready. What will happen to jf17 is also a question?and lastly we cannot tell what will happen in next year in pakistan how can paf can plan for next 5 to 10 years. We can get bankcorrupt in mean time there is possibility which can make project hanging in turmoil. Too ambitious from PAF it looks.

Not again thsi nonsense with these fan-made models in the background! This story has been debunked already so often..

However this is new and even if I still rate it more a fancy-looking placeholder it looks for the first time like a more radical change from a standard JF-17+

posted by @Malik

 

[TAC]

Not again thsi nonsense with these fan-made models in the background! This story has been debunked already so often..

However this is new and even if I still rate it more a fancy-looking placeholder it looks for the first time like a more radical change from a standard JF-17+

posted by @Malik

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With respect this video isn’t fanboy made, it’s from the current IDEAS exhibition in Karachi, a quite respectable news outlet and interview is with a serving PAF official. Agreed that it appears to be a far more radical design change than previously expected. Emphasis seems to be on indigenous.
Whether it succeeds or is forever a fancy place holder, time will tell, but the intention and aims / objectives are clearly there.

 

[Bilal]

With respect this video isn’t fanboy made, it’s from the current IDEAS exhibition in Karachi, a quite respectable news outlet and interview is with a serving PAF official. Agreed that it appears to be a far more radical design change than previously expected. Emphasis seems to be on indigenous.
Whether it succeeds or is forever a fancy place holder, time will tell, but the intention and aims / objectives are clearly there.

Yes, but the news outlet’s smart ass video editor put a fanboy made model in the thumbnail.

 

[Ak01]

With respect this video isn’t fanboy made, it’s from the current IDEAS exhibition in Karachi, a quite respectable news outlet and interview is with a serving PAF official. Agreed that it appears to be a far more radical design change than previously expected. Emphasis seems to be on indigenous.
Whether it succeeds or is forever a fancy place holder, time will tell, but the intention and aims / objectives are clearly there.

well considering its literally a model of FCAS, take a guess

 

[Deino]

With respect this video isn’t fanboy made, it’s from the current IDEAS exhibition in Karachi, a quite respectable news outlet and interview is with a serving PAF official. Agreed that it appears to be a far more radical design change than previously expected. Emphasis seems to be on indigenous.
Whether it succeeds or is forever a fancy place holder, time will tell, but the intention and aims / objectives are clearly there.

Then why these guys always still use this BS? ... since they don't care, since they do not know better or since they just want clicks and the regular crowd towards such videos are aimed do not care anyway?



These models are fan-made and even the modeller himself posted & confirmed this some time ago, but still some guys use it for anything.

Even more so, THERE IS NO J-31 anymore ... so at least you too try to get the facts correct.

 

[TAC]

Yes, but the news outlet’s smart ass video editor put a fanboy made model in the thumbnail.

So maybe ignore that? Or alternatively we can discuss that aspect and use it to dismiss the actual PFX update directly from PAF?

 

[TAC]

well considering its literally a model of FCAS, take a guess

Sorry, take a guess of what? There seems to a few different variations of images in this video and which if any finalised is unclear? So Is it possible / maybe more prudent to stick to what the PAF official said?

 

[TAC]

Then why these guys always still use this BS? ... since they don't care, since they do not know better or since they just want clicks and the regular crowd towards such videos are aimed do not care anyway?

View attachment 82663

These models are fan-made and even the modeller himself posted & confirmed this some time ago, but still some guys use it for anything.

Even more so, THERE IS NO J-31 anymore ... so at least you too try to get the facts correct.

Where in my post did I defend such fanboy bs videos? On the contrary I’ve repeatedly urged members not to watch / believe/ repost channels like inshort etc.
I did not even mention J-31 in the post you are replying to so no idea what you are on about when you’re telling me to get my facts correct on that aspect!?