JF-17 PFX program

[StormBreaker]

@Deino @Michael

Does this legit look like displayed on CCTV? If yes, What’s this?

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[Michael]

@Deino @Michael

Does this legit look like displayed on CCTV? If yes, What’s this?

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Fake news !
It should be a PS picture.

 

[Yasser76]

@Deino @Michael

Does this legit look like displayed on CCTV? If yes, What’s this?

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J-10 and F-16 made a baby

 

[Deino]

@Deino @Michael

Does this legit look like displayed on CCTV? If yes, What’s this?

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Fake news !
It should be a PS picture.

Clearly FAKE … But IMO like nowadays often used a stupid AI-generated nonsense

 

[RajaBaja]

According to public information, there is indeed an intellectual property protection agreement between China and Russia regarding the Su-27 series fighter jets and their derivative designs.
But this is not the point.

Many Pakistani friends' imaginations about PAF are completely out of touch with reality. This world is not a place where I can get whatever I need.
Ideally, any country needs heavy fighters (bomb trucks). But the reality is not like that. Many people simply understand the demand, but they don't know what price they have to pay for it.

Pakistan doesn't need J-16 or heavy twin engine fighter jets.
It's not our requirement.

If we get stealth jets from China or Turkey, those will an exception for twin engines because of their design, sensor and computational needs requiring a second engine.

Availability % for twin engine jets is always much lower than single engine hi-tech jets.

Pakistan air force wants single engine medium range combat planes to field in numbers and produce a higher sortie and availability ratio. Our target is to fight a war emerging in days like May of 2025.

In face, I think I am sure when we see a PFX 5th generation design prototype, it will also be a single engine jet.

 

[Bentley777]

Guys, I think you are completely missing the point.

Pakistan is totally incapable of possessing modern heavy fighter aircraft.

PAF previously purchased 20 J-10CE fighters.
1. 20 J-10CE. This is a very small number. The standard establishment of a PLAAF fighter brigade is 24 fighters.
2. J-10CE is the cheapest fighter among China's modern fighters.
3. Even for this low and cheap fighter order, most of the funds for PAF's purchase still came from Chinese loans.

Modern heavy fighters are not only very expensive to buy, but also very expensive to maintain. This is not something Pakistan can afford.

If Pakistan has enough money and willingness, we can simplify the J-20 to make it cost the same as the J-16. I believe that at the same price, anyone will choose the J-20 (simplified version) instead of the J-16. This is not difficult for CAC.

Cancel the stealth skin and coating and use ordinary skin instead.​

Simplify the E/W system of the J-20, moderately reduce the capacity of the AESA, etc. ...​

This has no impact on China's national defense security.

The core of the problem is: Pakistan has no money!!!

Sorry to correct you utterly nonsense that PAF cannot posses modern heavy twin engine fighter jet. Multiple airforces operate Russian twin engine fighter jets which don't come close to PAF. Its PAF own choice not to get it due it's own decision making and procurement mechanisms and future sight. Now based on recent conflict some changes need to be done in procurement and strategy front. There is a gap is pak offensive Punch because PAF mirages are in retirement phase. So many of us believe that PAF should get twin engine heavy 4.5 gen get compromising of 2 Sq minimum. It's not necessary to get from Russia or China. Pak can get some used American ones too. As far as money is concern they can arrange it for PAF the gov of Pak based on their trumendous performance and keeping in mind next conflict which will comprise of air power which will ultimately play major role in outcome of war.

 

[PakAl]

Who did you inquire about this? RIAT airmen?

Also if they want a larger plane, it will just end up being a similar plane to the J-10C. It will need a larger engine to increase size and a fresh airframe design. Essentially going to be 2 platforms similar to J-10.

J-35 covers stealth niche.

Paf pilots, i was there for a few hours, asking similar questions to different pilots, some just smiled and never answered lol. Very friendly people, respectful and Pakistanis showed so much love to them.

J10CE is huge, the new plane will be similar to F16s, it will be used to replace older JF17s, Mirages and F7PGs, then eventually replace Jf17 block 3s. Paf wants a plane to produce own parts, be able to sell to others, incorporate weapons, radars from Turkey and others, aswell as Pakistan own missiles.

 

[PakAl]

Medium weight is a good start but 4.5 gen isn’t!

By now, PAF must look at how the AirForce would be after 25 years and they must go all in on 5th gen.

AAMs are getting more and more deadlier and the 4th Gen RCS would basically expose you even more.

Paf are going for 5th generation but can they purchase 200 5th generation? Answer is no, paf still needs to replace all older Jf17s, Mirages and F7PGs, they are thinking 25 years ahead, will continue to locally produce 4.5th generation medium weight pfx, and purchase more J10Cs and J35s when funds are available. So imagine by 2040 we have 100 Pfx, 60 Jf17s, 60 J10Cs, 50 J35s, the 75 F16s will be ready for retirement and Kaan can be purchased.

 

[Pak-Warrior]

Since everyone is making assumptions that what weight class JF17 PFX would be. I will also make some "assumptions" as their is no official data out yet.

If PAF wanted a medium-weight aircraft, then why to invest in another platform when PAF already has procured J-10C. It can just order more, its available. Also its declared that PFX isn't a 5th gen, so J-10C is a 4.5 gen already available.

my thoughts on PFX
So, I think PFX is same weight class as JF-17 and will share a lot with it. Essentially some changes to reduce RCS, (In every graphic, we have seen twin tail configuration. So instead of one large, flat surface, there will be 2 smaller, angled surfaces). Maybe an improved engine but for same weight class. Localized avionics.

 

[That_Guy]

T-10K-3 (aka SU-33 of Ukraine) was acquired from Ukraine in the case of J-15.

Soviets both shared rights to the flankers and they built the J-15 by reverse engineering Ukrainian SU-33.

They never shared rights, they shared licenses. When Ukraine left the Soviet union, they lost those licenses.

 

[That_Guy]

I mean to tell you. Russia needs China more now, and China does not need to worry about whether Russia is happy. So, if we decide to sell heavy fighter jets abroad, Russia's opinion will not matter.

A naive way to think.

 

[PakAl]

Since everyone is making assumptions that what weight class JF17 PFX would be. I will also make some "assumptions" as their is no official data out yet.

If PAF wanted a medium-weight aircraft, then why to invest in another platform when PAF already has procured J-10C. It can just order more, its available. Also its declared that PFX isn't a 5th gen, so J-10C is a 4.5 gen already available.

my thoughts on PFX
So, I think PFX is same weight class as JF-17 and will share a lot with it. Essentially some changes to reduce RCS, (In every graphic, we have seen twin tail configuration. So instead of one large, flat surface, there will be 2 smaller, angled surfaces). Maybe an improved engine but for same weight class. Localized avionics.

J10C is Chinese plane, paf wants own 4.5th generation medium weight plane so we can add our own weaponary, radars etc, plus mixture of powerful chinese and Turkish weapons. Paf is thinking next 25 years, can either continue to produce more Jf17 block 3s or move on to a medium weight which means we will have more powerful engine, radars etc. I also thought the same, why not buy more J10Cs but development of local knowledge, industry, weaponary is where pfx is needed.

 

[StormBreaker]

Paf are going for 5th generation but can they purchase 200 5th generation? Answer is no, paf still needs to replace all older Jf17s, Mirages and F7PGs, they are thinking 25 years ahead, will continue to locally produce 4.5th generation medium weight pfx, and purchase more J10Cs and J35s when funds are available. So imagine by 2040 we have 100 Pfx, 60 Jf17s, 60 J10Cs, 50 J35s, the 75 F16s will be ready for retirement and Kaan can be purchased.

The point is, AAMs and AD radars are getting more potent with time. Not too far from now, Stealth might become a basic requirement for a Fighter to have a chance in combat let alone engage. Any 4.5 gen fighters inducted in the name of PFX during mid 2030s will serve for atleast 25-35 years, i.e 2060-2070.

It doesn’t make sense.

 

[Corax]

T-10K-3 (aka SU-33 of Ukraine) was acquired from Ukraine in the case of J-15.

Soviets both shared rights to the flankers and they built the J-15 by reverse engineering Ukrainian SU-33.

The IP rights for the design of the Su-33, and all Flanker variants, reside with Sukhoi, the company that designed and developed the aircraft. The fact that China got its hands on an airframe of the Su-33 from Ukraine is irrelevant.

The entire episode of China producing Flanker variants is a little opaque, and I'm sure its been discussed at length many times, but perhaps @Deino can provide us all with a quick reminder about the license/unlicensed versions.

 

[PakAl]

The point is, AAMs and AD radars are getting more potent with time. Not too far from now, Stealth might become a basic requirement for a Fighter to have a chance in combat let alone engage. Any 4.5 gen fighters inducted in the name of PFX during mid 2030s will serve for atleast 25-35 years, i.e 2060-2070.

It doesn’t make sense.

You could be correct but from paf point of view they cannot purchase 400 5th generation planes ASAP, instead they will stop production of Jf17 block 3s and replace them with Pfx production, produce them till 2040, replacing all Mirages, F7PGs, and older Jf17s, also when funds are available they will purchase more J10CEs and J35s, after 2040 paf will need F16s to be replaced aswell, by most likely Kaan type plane, it's possible paf will stop Pfx and replace it by 5th generation plane, with Turkish help, I hope Turkey, Azerbaijan, Pakistan, Qatar will have strong joint defence industry by 2040.