JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Pundit Pikachu]

Wikkipedia numbers are wrong. Mirages 3 and 5 most are retired. Also, F-7. Only very few of them are left. They are being replaced by a combination of J-10 C and JF-17.

Sorry, Nevermind my bad I should have looked for a better source for more reliable numbers.

I took a look at Pakistan section of IISS Military Balance 2024 book and here are the number shown there.

So I have the same question can we expect more JF 17 orders to replace whatever number of F 7 and Mirages are in service right now
@Oscar

 

[Zarvan]

Sorry Nevermind my bad I should have looked for a better source for more reliable numbers.

I took a look at Pakistan section of IISS Military Balance 2024 book and here are the number shown there.
View attachment 24382
So I have the same question can we expect more JF 17 orders to replace whatever number of F 7 and Mirages are in service right now
@Oscar

In next two to three years all older jets will get replaced Mirages and F-7 will be replaced with a combination of JF-17 and J-10 C.

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

In next two to three years all older jets will get replaced Mirages and F-7 will be replaced with a combination of JF-17 and J-10 C.

So if I am getting this right the overall numbers of aircrafts in PAF inventory will actually decrease as these replacements will happen with the already ordered JF 17s and J 10s.
So basically No extra JF 17's are going to be ordered other than the current lot already in production

 

[Oscar]

Hi @Oscar @Zarvan @HAIDER I was looking at PAF inventory at Wikipedia and have a question

PAF still operates these technologically vintage aircrafts in good enough number,
53 F-7
87 Mirage 3
92 Mirage 5
So can we expect these aircrafts to be eventually replaced by more JF 17s and we can expect additional JF 17 Block 3 orders in upcoming years
Or is the Current JF 17 order book final with no more orders and PAF downsizing itself by eventually retiring these platforms without any replacement

F-7s are pretty much gone other than the F-7PGs of which 1-2 true operational squadron strength remains. These could be possibly replaced with L-15s wherever they were being used in fighter conversion units.

Mirages are reduced as well but pooled into larger squadrons to be retired and replaced in their squadrons by JF-17 family and perhaps additional J-10s.

 

[Oscar]

So if I am getting this right the overall numbers of aircrafts in PAF inventory will actually decrease as these replacements will happen with the already ordered JF 17s and J 10s.
So basically No extra JF 17's are going to be ordered other than the current lot already in production

Yes - this may be the case for a few years until a 5th generation aircraft comes in. It is very dependent on budget but the shift is also going unmanned and those numbers are ballooning quite rapidly to become primary CAS, COIN and in some case BARCAP assets.

 

[Zarvan]

So if I am getting this right the overall numbers of aircrafts in PAF inventory will actually decrease as these replacements will happen with the already ordered JF 17s and J 10s.
So basically No extra JF 17's are going to be ordered other than the current lot already in production

First of all, we have no clue how many JF-17 BLOCK III PAF plans to induct. It may induct only 50 or may induct 60 or even may induct 100. Secondly, no one in Pakistan has any clue on how many J-10 C are coming. My personal guess is J-10 C final number won't be less than 100. It could be way above. So, in short no one knows the final number of PAF except for PAF leadership.

 

[MastanKhan]

First of all, we have no clue how many JF-17 BLOCK III PAF plans to induct. It may induct only 50 or may induct 60 or even may induct 100. Secondly, no one in Pakistan has any clue on how many J-10 C are coming. My personal guess is J-10 C final number won't be less than 100. It could be way above. So, in short no one knows the final number of PAF except for PAF leadership.

Hi,

Ultimately all JF17's would be JF17 BLK 3 standard---. That maybe 150---or 180---.

But then if you need to find the replacement of the F16's---that number could get higher---.

Now if the J10C's would be filling out for the F16's---then the J10 would be in a higher number---.

The 350 number needs to be filled up---. So---there will be a a lot more of the JF17's and J10C's than we are thinking of---.

 

[PakFactor]

Hi,

Ultimately all JF17's would be JF17 BLK 3 standard---. That maybe 150---or 180---.

But then if you need to find the replacement of the F16's---that number could get higher---.

Now if the J10C's would be filling out for the F16's---then the J10 would be in a higher number---.

The 350 number needs to be filled up---. So---there will be a a lot more of the JF17's and J10C's than we are thinking of---.

In the old PDF, I mentioned that, per my source, we will be getting close to 100 J-10s. While the JF-17 is our fighter, and we can do with it as we please, it's still limited in range and load-out. From the beginning, we should have pooled our resources into J-10s.

However, my main concern is that we didn't scale up in numbers with JF-17.

 

[Khanasifm]

Hi @Oscar @Zarvan @HAIDER I was looking at PAF inventory at Wikipedia and have a question

PAF still operates these technologically vintage aircrafts in good enough number,
53 F-7
87 Mirage 3
92 Mirage 5
So can we expect these aircrafts to be eventually replaced by more JF 17s and we can expect additional JF 17 Block 3 orders in upcoming years
Or is the Current JF 17 order book final with no more orders and PAF downsizing itself by eventually retiring these platforms without any replacement

A number of folks lit aircraft based on initial orders there is attrition too over the decades so number of mirages is way way low

Example a sqn of f6 at the time of retirement has less than 14 in the sqn sqn usually starts in 20s a/c per sqn

There were no 83 mirage 3 last time I checked
Ccs sqn which is usually eq of flight
7 sqn full Stength
Remaining were dual seater distributed among various sqn
Doing math is not 83 , 83 may have been ordered over the years
Mirage 5 again total number Acq perhaps but not operational
Currently all sqns almost all mirages are de plated

Same goes to f7 pg number of 57

 

[ghazi52]

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[Sparten]

Considering that even after receiving J10s we are not seeing PL15Es put next to JF17s at tradeshows, I'm starting to think that maybe they don't want the JF17 to compete with the J10. It's a weird Mexican standoff. China wants to sell J10s and operates J10s. Pakistan wants to sell JF17s but operates JF17s AND J10s.

I think the PL15 was transferred to us with the understanding that the Thunders could carry it but not be publicised.

 

[studsmart]

I think the PL15 was transferred to us with the understanding that the Thunders could carry it but not be publicised.

That was before blk 3

 

[Mrc]

After block 3 there will be JF17 pfx

 

[Oscar]

I think the PL15 was transferred to us with the understanding that the Thunders could carry it but not be publicised.

Not exactly - but more so it’s not the optimal weapon -sensor mix on the JF-17.

Lastly - putting missiles on aircraft puts them into the stresses of flying and reduces their operational life. The PL-12s are still more than adequate for most of the threats for across the border and are 1/3rd the cost of the PL-15s so its better to let them go through day to day usage and let the J-10s focus on PL-15s.