JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Fatman17]

Are Bhai, Cruise ni air launched Ballistic missile ha.

OK I'll inform Alan Warnes.

 

[falcon34]

OK I'll inform Alan Warnes.

Yeah, Do that.

 

[arslank01]

If its a cruise missile where are Air intakes??????????
Who Gave u the Think Tank Analyst, title, if can't distinguish between a Air launched ballistic and a cruise missile, Respectfully!!!!!!!

people make mistakes- give it a rest.

 

[falcon34]

people make mistakes- give it a rest.

I pointed that out before, while ago, He did it again. That's why i was pissed, He's a senior member, I respect the guy!!

 

[arslank01]

I pointed that out before, while ago, He did it again. That's why i was pissed, He's a senior member, I respect the guy!!

doesnt matter, it makes zero difference lol

 

[Bilal]

If its a cruise missile where are Air intakes??????????
Who Gave u the Think Tank Analyst, title, if can't distinguish between a Air launched ballistic and a cruise missile, Respectfully!!!!!!!

While CM400’s (purported) trajectory makes it ballistic/quasi ballistic but it’s not necessary that cruise missiles are air breathing for instance the early Exocet or C801 were solid rocket propelled anti ship cruise missiles.

 

[JamD]

@Quwa
When we were getting the J10CEs I was on about how the Chinese would not release the PL15 to us if we didn't get the J10s.

Considering that even after receiving J10s we are not seeing PL15Es put next to JF17s at tradeshows, I'm starting to think that maybe they don't want the JF17 to compete with the J10. It's a weird Mexican standoff. China wants to sell J10s and operates J10s. Pakistan wants to sell JF17s but operates JF17s AND J10s.

Neither aircraft has had the export success that was envisioned. But I suspect the Chinese are betting on the J10 now.

EDIT: Would also add to the PFX theory.

 

[Ali_Baba]

@Quwa
When we were getting the J10CEs I was on about how the Chinese would not release the PL15 to us if we didn't get the J10s.

Considering that even after receiving J10s we are not seeing PL15Es put next to JF17s at tradeshows, I'm starting to think that maybe they don't want the JF17 to compete with the J10. It's a weird Mexican standoff. China wants to sell J10s and operates J10s. Pakistan wants to sell JF17s but operates JF17s AND J10s.

Neither aircraft has had the export success that was envisioned. But I suspect the Chinese are betting on the J10 now.

EDIT: Would also add to the PFX theory.

It would not suprise me if it is true ! China has her own interests, and weapons exports are instruments of foreign policy and control as we can see with the F16s from the USA and the control/influence that buys over Pakistan.

 

[Quwa]

@Quwa
When we were getting the J10CEs I was on about how the Chinese would not release the PL15 to us if we didn't get the J10s.

Considering that even after receiving J10s we are not seeing PL15Es put next to JF17s at tradeshows, I'm starting to think that maybe they don't want the JF17 to compete with the J10. It's a weird Mexican standoff. China wants to sell J10s and operates J10s. Pakistan wants to sell JF17s but operates JF17s AND J10s.

Neither aircraft has had the export success that was envisioned. But I suspect the Chinese are betting on the J10 now.

EDIT: Would also add to the PFX theory.

The JF-17 also fits a niche requirement - i.e., lightweight multirole fighter that can be acquired at scale to build a fleet. The biggest users of such a fighter all have their own programs, i.e., South Korea (FA-50), India (Tejas), and Sweden (Gripen).

Small air forces are either moving to further wind down their air combat capabilities, or move to small numbers of very advanced fighters, like the F-35, Rafale, and F-16V.

Everyone else (e.g., Algeria, Egypt, etc) would likely prefer the J-10CE more than the JF-17, IMO, as it's the higher performing, longer-ranged, and better supported platform.

So, from AVIC's viewpoint, the JF-17 is less of a competitor (IMO) and more of an anchor that's sucking up resources. It was a great idea when it seemed that all those MiG-21, F-7, F-5, etc users would seek the JF-17, but that hasn't panned out. Hence, from a market standpoint, it'd be better to focus on marketing the J-10CE and J-31.

It's actually possible that the PAF is now moving towards buying out AVIC's share and, in turn, bringing all JF-17 production to PAC. Otherwise, it'd be difficult to economically maintain this fighter for the long run when your co-production partner can create issues for the other 42% of the subassemblies (be it for new-built planes or structural life extension plans).

IMO, I don't think AVIC would have an issue with transferring the entire JF-17 line to the PAF. As I said earlier, it's a niche fighter with a very limited market. Moreover, the PAF itself will continue buying other AVIC products, like the J-10CE and J-31, so AVIC isn't even losing the PAF market.

 

[Awwad]

@Quwa
When we were getting the J10CEs I was on about how the Chinese would not release the PL15 to us if we didn't get the J10s.

Considering that even after receiving J10s we are not seeing PL15Es put next to JF17s at tradeshows, I'm starting to think that maybe they don't want the JF17 to compete with the J10. It's a weird Mexican standoff. China wants to sell J10s and operates J10s. Pakistan wants to sell JF17s but operates JF17s AND J10s.

Neither aircraft has had the export success that was envisioned. But I suspect the Chinese are betting on the J10 now.

EDIT: Would also add to the PFX theory.

True. In the age of Meteors, AIM-120Ds, you'd definitely want a long range BVR with your next fighter jet purchase. Even though JF-17 block IIIs maybe cheaper than Gripen but still its not that cheap. JF-17s with PL-15s will for sure greatly enhance its chances for successful export.

PAF's own long range air to air missile might solve this mexican standoff.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[MastanKhan]

So, from AVIC's viewpoint, the JF-17 is less of a competitor (IMO) and more of an anchor that's sucking up resources. It was a great idea when it seemed that all those MiG-21, F-7, F-5, etc users would seek the JF-17, but that hasn't panned out. Hence, from a market standpoint, it'd be better to focus on marketing the J-10CE and J-31.

It's actually possible that the PAF is now moving towards buying out AVIC's share and, in turn, bringing all JF-17 production to PAC. Otherwise, it'd be difficult to economically maintain this fighter for the long run when your co-production partner can create issues for the other 42% of the subassemblies (be it for new-built planes or structural life extension plans).

IMO, I don't think AVIC would have an issue with transferring the entire JF-17 line to the PAF. As I said earlier, it's a niche fighter with a very limited market. Moreover, the PAF itself will continue buying other AVIC products, like the J-10CE and J-31, so AVIC isn't even losing the PAF market.

Hi,

If the engine for the JF17 was ready in 2005---the french EW package available---all those sales would have materialized.

&

Hi,

The PL15 procurement delay was related more towards trials, integration, induction---integration, induction integration, induction---.

An air forces do not jump from one missile to another in a jiffy---.

One has to learn to utilize the services of the SD10 before moving upto and higher category of missile capability---.

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

JF17 Block III During static display.

 

[Pundit Pikachu]

Hi @Oscar @Zarvan @HAIDER I was looking at PAF inventory at Wikipedia and have a question

PAF still operates these technologically vintage aircrafts in good enough number,
53 F-7
87 Mirage 3
92 Mirage 5
So can we expect these aircrafts to be eventually replaced by more JF 17s and we can expect additional JF 17 Block 3 orders in upcoming years
Or is the Current JF 17 order book final with no more orders and PAF downsizing itself by eventually retiring these platforms without any replacement

 

[Zarvan]

Hi @Oscar @Zarvan @HAIDER I was looking at PAF inventory at Wikipedia and have a question

PAF still operates these technologically vintage aircrafts in good enough number,
53 F-7
87 Mirage 3
92 Mirage 5
So can we expect these aircrafts to be eventually replaced by more JF 17s and we can expect additional JF 17 Block 3 orders in upcoming years
Or is the Current JF 17 order book final with no more orders and PAF downsizing itself by eventually retiring these platforms without any replacement

Wikkipedia numbers are wrong. Mirages 3 and 5 most are retired. Also, F-7. Only very few of them are left. They are being replaced by a combination of J-10 C and JF-17.