JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Pakistanithinktank]

Assuming Bangladesh has formally requested the acquisition of 16–24 JF-17 Block 3 aircraft with weapons, training, and ground support. The key question is when will production begin? Pakistan is presently focused on fulfilling JF-17 Block 3 orders for Azerbaijan, while two additional countries have also expressed interest in the fighter.

 

[Ibbi32]

Assuming Bangladesh has formally requested the acquisition of 16–24 JF-17 Block 3 aircraft with weapons, training, and ground support. The key question is when will production begin? Pakistan is presently focused on fulfilling JF-17 Block 3 orders for Azerbaijan, while two additional countries have also expressed interest in the fighter.

By my estimate there are 40-50 jf-17s of paf and azeri af still yet to be fulfilled which will have to be fulfilled prior to any Bangladeshi deliveries. This will likely take till 2029/30. So likely Bangladesh will recieve j-10 to fill current gaps before jf-17

 

[Yasser76]

By my estimate there are 40-50 jf-17s of paf and azeri af still yet to be fulfilled which will have to be fulfilled prior to any Bangladeshi deliveries. This will likely take till 2029/30. So likely Bangladesh will recieve j-10 to fill current gaps before jf-17

Maybe like French Air Force and Rafales, PAF takes a hit and gets to the back of the line so export customers get their jets first?

 

[Michael]

By my estimate there are 40-50 jf-17s of paf and azeri af still yet to be fulfilled which will have to be fulfilled prior to any Bangladeshi deliveries. This will likely take till 2029/30. So likely Bangladesh will recieve j-10 to fill current gaps before jf-17

Maybe like French Air Force and Rafales, PAF takes a hit and gets to the back of the line so export customers get their jets first?

LOL.

This is the current dilemma for PAC.
The current number of orders and prospective orders exceeds the current production capacity, but it is not enough to justify building a new production line or upgrading the existing one to a smart, automated production line.

Two options:
1. Increase the workload of the current production line (employee overtime + increased wages), and try to explain the situation to customers and gain their understanding.
2. Continue efforts to increase the number of orders. Once the number of orders reaches a certain level, upgrade the production line to a smart, automated production line or build a new one. (I support the upgrade)

The typical woes of a manufacturing company:
Not enough orders is painful.
Too many orders is also painful.

 

[hasssanali8998]

The typical woes of a manufacturing company:
Not enough orders is painful.
Too many orders is also painful.

yeah but we like these woes , better than the alternative

 

[Michael]

yeah but we like these woes , better than the alternative

Buddy,

From a psychological standpoint, people are more willing to accept the idea of dying from overeating than from starvation.
But from a physical standpoint, dying from overeating is more painful than dying from starvation.

Just kidding.

Please rest assured, the JF-17 fighter jet is a China-Pakistan cooperation project. If needed, China will provide assistance.

 

[Ak01]

By my estimate there are 40-50 jf-17s of paf and azeri af still yet to be fulfilled which will have to be fulfilled prior to any Bangladeshi deliveries. This will likely take till 2029/30. So likely Bangladesh will recieve j-10 to fill current gaps before jf-17

your estimate is incorrect- PAF slashed its order to 30 and dripfed PAC to keep the line running, it was running at like 1/2-1/3rd capacity, there was tons of headroom but PAF doesnt want to load to the max PAC with orders because then once the orders are complete PAC will sit idle, whereas this way of dripfeeding, its active for another 5-6 years atleast

 

[Ali_Baba]

LOL.

This is the current dilemma for PAC.
The current number of orders and prospective orders exceeds the current production capacity, but it is not enough to justify building a new production line or upgrading the existing one to a smart, automated production line.

Two options:
1. Increase the workload of the current production line (employee overtime + increased wages), and try to explain the situation to customers and gain their understanding.
2. Continue efforts to increase the number of orders. Once the number of orders reaches a certain level, upgrade the production line to a smart, automated production line or build a new one. (I support the upgrade)

The typical woes of a manufacturing company:
Not enough orders is painful.
Too many orders is also painful.

My memory tells me that the JF17 manufacturing pipeline was built to deliver 50 units per year. PAF then made the decision to halve that capacity as the required level of orders did not materialise. Then PAF reduced the orders for JF17 itself, running the line at an even lower level. The level of orders now, is not at a level to get the 2nd line back online(or even get to the full 24/year production rate). The question remains if all the tooling and jigs remain, and if it is just people need to be retrained again to open up a second line if required.

If Bangladesh has indeed ordered the JF17, then it will take time to train the crews and pilots, so the delivery timeline would be inline with the required logistical and infrastructure build-up that Bangladesh needs to put in place, ie there is time.

The same situation exists with Azerbaijan, which can only induct Jf17 at a certain rate per year as it needs to get people moved over from older jets and retrained into the new platform, all under operational conditions.

 

[hussain0216]

i think jf17 could be the next mig 21( not in reliability lmao, but in operators ) if we play it smart .

Absolutely

I was searching a few months ago about Pakistani weapons sales and looking specifically for small arms sales to African countries etc

Came across a message board with Kenyans on it and saw the JF17 title, clicked on it and it was Kenyans and Africans discussing the JF17 and how they could go for this as a option cheaper then what anyone else was offering but with with no weapons restrictions


I thought the exact same thing, if Pakistan plays smart, JF17 could absolutely become the Mig 21 of this century, multiple countries have very little options and we could provide that

 

[Raider 21]

Yeah, Bahrain could well be a candidate, read somewhere around 25% of their AF is Pakstani

Yeah that was the case when it came to ground crew and air traffic control, majority of that has been reduced. They do have two instructor fighter pilots....one of them might have broken the world record for the oldest active jet fighter pilot in the world as of last week....he is part of the evaluation team to see if the RBAF can have a fleet of JF-17Bs

 

[Ali_Baba]

Yeah that was the case when it came to ground crew and air traffic control, majority of that has been reduced. They do have two instructor fighter pilots....one of them might have broken the world record for the oldest active jet fighter pilot in the world as of last week....he is part of the evaluation team to see if the RBAF can have a fleet of JF-17Bs

The limitation on JF17 sales is more strategic politics, than the technical capability of the plane itself. I don't see JF17 having much of a reach into the middle east, as that is very much the USAs back yard for military sales.

 

[Raider 21]

The limitation on JF17 sales is more strategic politics, than the technical capability of the plane itself. I don't see JF17 having much of a reach into the middle east, as that is very much the USAs back yard for military sales.

The marketing team is terrible, so the customers at times need to do more research to show their requirements. These Pakistanis run on a restaurant mentality at times thinking a rich wallet would bring out the best meal while served on the same plates

 

[Yasser76]

The limitation on JF17 sales is more strategic politics, than the technical capability of the plane itself. I don't see JF17 having much of a reach into the middle east, as that is very much the USAs back yard for military sales.

I suspect after the Israeli Doha hit countries may start to hedge, like Saudis did with SDMA.
JF-17 is a more diplomatic choice then going "full Chinese".

Anyway, no one really knows. Let us see, my opinion is it is more likely to be an Arab country of some sort though.....

 

[Ibbi32]

Maybe like French Air Force and Rafales, PAF takes a hit and gets to the back of the line so export customers get their jets first?

Aiui we just did this with our current 2024 production which was essentially dedicated entirely to azerbaijan adding a year to pafs order timeline. This is not a sustainable way to run an af when we have almost 100 legacy platforms to replace and are currently in warlike situations

 

[Michael]

My memory tells me that the JF17 manufacturing pipeline was built to deliver 50 units per year. PAF then made the decision to halve that capacity as the required level of orders did not materialise. Then PAF reduced the orders for JF17 itself, running the line at an even lower level. The level of orders now, is not at a level to get the 2nd line back online(or even get to the full 24/year production rate). The question remains if all the tooling and jigs remain, and if it is just people need to be retrained again to open up a second line if required.

This is precisely the question that the entire Pakistani industrial system (including the military manufacturing system) needs to seriously consider...... Emergency response capability.

I'll give a few examples to illustrate this point:
1. When COVID-19 first broke out, China was severely lacking in face masks. BYD company urgently mobilized engineers and other relevant resources, establishing a complete mask production line in just a few days (reaching a daily production of 5 million masks on the 24th day). Afterwards, BYD allocated other resources within the company, establishing a total of 2000 mask production lines. At its peak, the company's highest daily output reached 100 million masks. After the pandemic ended, BYD quickly resumed normal operations.
2. The recently revealed Type YKJ-1000 hypersonic missile from Lingkong Tianxing Company. Unlike other hypersonic missiles, this missile extensively uses civilian technology rather than military and aerospace technology. For example, it uses building cement materials to manufacture high-temperature resistant component casings, and uses civilian standard parts to replace aerospace-grade parts......
3. Recently, Chinese authorities exposed a bizarre case. A noodle processing factory was using its noodle processing equipment to manufacture a large number of UAVs (from the video, they appear to be medium-to-large UAVs, not small ones). The criminals did not possess much professional knowledge, but they did manufacture many unregistered UAVs without permission......

I cited these examples to illustrate the systematization of industrial standards and the emergency response capabilities of enterprises. PAC should carefully study these.

The JF-17B3 and J-10C share many common characteristics. The maintenance work of the PAF's J-10CE and the production work of the PAC's JF-17B3 have many similarities and commonalities.

This requires the Pakistanis to think for themselves.