JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Metal 0-1]

So the old pulse doppler radar on them and AIM-120D beats an AESA equipped JF having the PL-15?

Have you compared the specs of F-15E Strike Eagle radar even though it's Pulse Doppler but that thing is massive and will detect JF-17 and launch slammers way before JF-17 detects F-15E
APG-82(V)1 outclasses KLJ-7A in range, resolution, tracking capacity, EW resistance, and multitasking by a wide margin.

 

[gamaji]

Both JF17 and Tejas, FA/50, Gripen are competing for the lightweight fighter market. Tejas is now out of the running, so it is down to a 3 way fight for future contracts.

I think it's not just the fighter jets that Pakistan is offering.

Yeah, with Tejas thrown out of the race (which was a faulty half cooked pie in any case), any buyers of FA/50 or Gripen will just get the planes probably with some training support from the seller.

PAF, on the other hand, is offering the whole solution/package including planes, probably Link-17 based communication systems, drones, munitions, training, creating infrastructure, and even deployment of Pakistani staff for active support, and whatnot. A kind of solution that worked and surprised the whole world in May. So, comparing the sales pitch of JF-17s with what is offered with FA/50 or Gripen is like comparing a plane with a whole echo system that includes planes as a component.

 

[Psyko70]

Have you compared the specs of F-15E Strike Eagle radar even though it's Pulse Doppler but that thing is massive and will detect JF-17 and launch slammers way before JF-17 detects F-15E
APG-82(V)1 outclasses KLJ-7A in range, resolution, tracking capacity, EW resistance, and multitasking by a wide margin.

Hello sir read my posts.
F15 best kill against sam is klub system and best kill against fighter mig 29 with one of worst variants in iraq.
Jf17 sam kill against s400.

If By kill chain jf17 with awacs support can do that than its great fighter.

Biggest mistake was showing jf17 as low cost fighter. It has created image as cheap fighter. With block 2 and 3 its light fighter with cost so cheap only because its not boeing or dassault or lockheed martin product. Make 50 mill plane then sell for 150 mill. Jf17 has no over exaggerated profit margin.

In aa scenario block 3 has multiple options to engage f15sa. Jf17 will be not some sitting duck it has cards. The difference is f15 has more missiles and jf17 is less.

Avionics play great role in survivability.

With 50 to 80km nez of pl15 and radars lpi capbility it can reach in that nez zone of pl15 even against fighters like f15. Awacs assist is separate plus point if fielded.

Ew suite of jf17 will be challenge.

Plus low rcs of jf17 against high rcs of f15 fighter makes that possible as well.

If range becomes closer within klj 7a its possible.

When I know usa is dash enuf to stop supply and maintenance i would go for jf17. If us was not that dash enuf. Id go for f15 only because record of safety and kills is superior in terms of quantity but we forget f15 never faced real challenge.

 

[AeronautIR]

Both JF17 and Tejas, FA/50, Gripen are competing for the lightweight fighter market. Tejas is now out of the running, so it is down to a 3 way fight for future contracts.

Gripen is far too expensive for developing countries, not to mention the attached US/Western political strings... also, Gripen E is now in medium weight category.

M-346, Hawk 200, L-15 and T-50 are advanced trainers for LIFT role that have been developed as light attack or fighter. Except JF-17 and Tejas, there are no other multi-role Light Combat Aircraft. The issues of Tejas are known and it is costlier than JF-17, with no combat record or exports.

 

[Khanivore]

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[Ibbi32]

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Mai bhi maira khan mai intrested hou iss ka matlab kya meri shaadi ho jai gi?.

Istg i dont mind the rest of the hopebait but this iraq deal in particular pmo so much. We have been making up so many tall tales from iraq being intrested in the aircraft for the better part of a decade but they still havent gone through with the purchase. But if you believe all these engagement bait headlines tweets and articles the deal is just about to be signed once again

 

[Metal 0-1]

Hello sir read my posts.
F15 best kill against sam is klub system and best kill against fighter mig 29 with one of worst variants in iraq.
Jf17 sam kill against s400.

If By kill chain jf17 with awacs support can do that than its great fighter.

Biggest mistake was showing jf17 as low cost fighter. It has created image as cheap fighter. With block 2 and 3 its light fighter with cost so cheap only because its not boeing or dassault or lockheed martin product. Make 50 mill plane then sell for 150 mill. Jf17 has no over exaggerated profit margin.

In aa scenario block 3 has multiple options to engage f15sa. Jf17 will be not some sitting duck it has cards. The difference is f15 has more missiles and jf17 is less.

Avionics play great role in survivability.

With 50 to 80km nez of pl15 and radars lpi capbility it can reach in that nez zone of pl15 even against fighters like f15. Awacs assist is separate plus point if fielded.

Ew suite of jf17 will be challenge.

Plus low rcs of jf17 against high rcs of f15 fighter makes that possible as well.

If range becomes closer within klj 7a its possible.

When I know usa is dash enuf to stop supply and maintenance i would go for jf17. If us was not that dash enuf. Id go for f15 only because record of safety and kills is superior in terms of quantity but we forget f15 never faced real challenge.

Navi sun lo.
Ja mera veer ja ky BVR dy concepts parh,

 

[Psyko70]

Navi sun lo.
Ja mera veer ja ky BVR dy concepts parh,

Hello sir,

Showing mutual respect is always good. Either have proper reply with reasoning or you leave it. I have never found myself to be on top in these fields. However, I have given a good reasoning but I guess you only read part of my post that did not make you happy.

What I have mentioned is totally logical and not out of context. If there is any ex fighter pilot here he can tell you that. I am not pitting mig 21 against f15.

you took time to write this

Navi sun lo.
Ja mera veer ja ky BVR dy concepts parh,

When you could actually have utilized time to educate people like me and other members. But, you chose something that was complete waste of time.

 

[puttputt]

sorry this is kai FA 50 man

Look carefully, there are 3 models in the background: L-159, JF-17, and T-50. The one in the middle (JF-17) is a single-seater. There's no single-seat variant of the T-50 or FA-50 at this time, and even so, the design that KAI's working on re-uses the twin-seat version directly (with an extension from the fuselage moving into the area where the second seat would be, ala MiG-35).

 

[Khanivore]

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[Pakistanithinktank]

200+ order of JF-17 block3. Let’s hope PAC is able to handle it.

 

[Metal 0-1]

Hello sir,

Showing mutual respect is always good. Either have proper reply with reasoning or you leave it. I have never found myself to be on top in these fields. However, I have given a good reasoning but I guess you only read part of my post that did not make you happy.

What I have mentioned is totally logical and not out of context. If there is any ex fighter pilot here he can tell you that. I am not pitting mig 21 against f15.

you took time to write this


When you could actually have utilized time to educate people like me and other members. But, you chose something that was complete waste of time.

Educate? Buddy you wrote this whole eassy on how JF-17 will beat F-15SA In BVR fight this tells me you need to learn the ABC first.
So I don't see it's a waste of time rather trying to change your mind on how JF-17 B3 despite having the AESA struggles to produce enough power to search and track with that engine and teeny tiny radar it can do so much.
Despite having AESA Jeff's computational power is way too low.
Despite having the AESA since engine is not the most powerful jet engine it's going to struggle to burn through enemy jamming.

And with that engine on board EW won't be able to resist that much.


Now F-15E Strike Eagle despite having an older Pulse Doppler is very powerful thanks to those massive twin engines.
It can see way beyond than JF-17S AESA. And I don't need to tell ya 12 AMRAAMs launcehed while sustaining above Mach 1.5 are no joke.
First see and shot capability is easily F-15E's. It can launch AMRAAM outside its MAR and keep JF-17 defensive and go cold. F-15E will be able to suppress and close in.
Now as I said computational power is more important than range. F-15Es on board computers can process multiple targets at very high rate. So you can bring out 3 JF-17s and F-15E will give them tough time.

Please don't even try to put F-15EX, SA or QA in this scenario they'll skullf*** JF-17s.

 

[Psyko70]

Educate? Buddy you wrote this whole eassy on how JF-17 will beat F-15SA In BVR fight this tells me you need to learn the ABC first.
So I don't see it's a waste of time rather trying to chnage your mind on how JF-17 B3 despite having the AESA struggles to produce enough power to search and track with that engine and teeny tiny radar it can so much.

Despite having AESA Jeff's computational power is way too low.

Despite having the AESA since engine is not the most powerful jet engine it's going to struggle burn through enemy jamming.

And with that engine on board EW won't be able to resist that much.


Now F-15E Strike Eagle despite having an older Pulse Doppler is very powerful thanks to those massive twin engines.
It can see way beyond than JF-17S AESA. And I don't need to tell ya 12 AMRAAMs sustaining above Mach 1.5 are no jokes.
First see and shot capability is easily F-15Es. It can launch AMRAAM outside it's MAR and keep JF-17 defensive and go cold. F-15E will be able to suppress and close in.

Now as I said computational power is more important than range. F-15Es on board computers can process multiple targets at very high rate. So you can bring out 3 JF-17s and F-15E will give them tough time.

Please don't even try to put F-15EX, SA or QA in this scenario they'll skullf*** JF-17s.

Hello sir,

Good info. You seem to misunderstand somethings,

0. JF17 with AWACS has high chance in fighting

1. Low-Altitude / Terrain-Masked Combat (JF-17 strong chance)
AESA radar clutter at low altitude reduces F-15’s long-range advantage

2. EMCON (Emission control) / Passive Intercept (Surprisingly good for JF-17)
KLJ-7A AESA in LPI mode and RWR (RWR and MAWS help jf17 and f15 both)

3. Jf17 like jets are always going to be used in Packs its rarely 1v1.
consider some f15 down in 10 vs 10 if all jf17 are going down some f15 will and that is good as f15 will take time for induction of replacement after loss.

4. Denied / Contested Airspace (SAM umbrella) very realistic scenario

• With friendly SAMs
• F-15SA cannot freely use altitude
• Forced defensive BVR posture
• JF-17 can stay under SAM cover

JF-17 Block III is not meant to “outclass” F-15SA — it is meant to out-fight it tactically.

Now,

Where JF-17 Block III STRUGGLES
1. High-altitude, long-range BVR

2. F-15SA radar + IRST sees first
More missiles
Better energy retention

3. 1v1 clean intercept
F-15SA designed to win these

4. Against F-15SA with AWACS dominance
Situational awareness gap widens

 

[Metal 0-1]

Hello sir,

Good info. You seem to misunderstand somethings,

0. JF17 with AWACS has high chance in fighting

1. Low-Altitude / Terrain-Masked Combat (JF-17 strong chance)
AESA radar clutter at low altitude reduces F-15’s long-range advantage

2. EMCON (Emission control) / Passive Intercept (Surprisingly good for JF-17)
KLJ-7A AESA in LPI mode and RWR (RWR and MAWS help jf17 and f15 both)

3. Jf17 like jets are always going to be used in Packs its rarely 1v1.
consider some f15 down in 10 vs 10 if all jf17 are going down some f15 will and that is good as f15 will take time for induction of replacement after loss.

4. Denied / Contested Airspace (SAM umbrella) very realistic scenario

• With friendly SAMs
• F-15SA cannot freely use altitude
• Forced defensive BVR posture
• JF-17 can stay under SAM cover

JF-17 Block III is not meant to “outclass” F-15SA — it is meant to out-fight it tactically.

Now,

Where JF-17 Block III STRUGGLES
1. High-altitude, long-range BVR

2. F-15SA radar + IRST sees first
More missiles
Better energy retention

3. 1v1 clean intercept
F-15SA designed to win these

4. Against F-15SA with AWACS dominance
Situational awareness gap widens

Did you just Made up this scenario with Chat GPT.

Seriously lol. What do you think JF-17 is wunderwaffe. It's a cheap light fighter with cheap off the shelf aesa. It's goal is literally to replace 3rd Gen figters without breaking bank.
You talking F-15SA takes time to replace.
Ironically PAF have no money as of now to order more JF-17 Blk 3.
You're ignoring the fact that wealthy countries tend to use F-15s and they happen to afford some of the most capable enablers in the world.

Me chalo ignore ke lena Ae radar clutter train masking wali gal bahr 4 bndya vich betha na krein boht bezti honi.

And good night it's going to be a very hectic day at work.

 

[Oscar]

Did you just Made up this scenario with Chat GPT.

Seriously lol. What do you think JF-17 is wunderwaffe. It's a cheap light fighter with cheap off the shelf aesa. It's goal is literally to replace 3rd Gen figters without breaking bank.
You talking F-15SA takes time to replace.
Ironically PAF have no money as of now to order more JF-17 Blk 3.
You're ignoring the fact that wealthy countries tend to use F-15s and they happen to afford some of the most capable enablers in the world.

Me chalo ignore ke lena Ae radar clutter train masking wali gal bahr 4 bndya vich betha na krein boht bezti honi.

And good night it's going to be a very hectic day at work.

I am very confused where the JF-17 is supposed to compete with the 15SA? It is heavily outmatched in pretty much every regard except perhaps in certain parts of the WVR curve but that is moot considering 9x or even potentially PL-10 for JF-17s.

BVR the eagle will whomp JF-17s like baby seals but that depends on the stick aspect.
If the block-3 comes with PL-15 and paired with a good network. But at the end the larger aircraft with more missiles even if shorter ranged has a good chance because it can take lower PK but more shots versus the limited carrying capacity of a Block-3.

Be glad the fellows in Pakistan's east still haven't figured that out or how to even use such tactics beyond their academic publications.