JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[BonPlan]

F14-> was replaced with F18
F16-> was replaced with F15

Not really.

F18 was mainly a solution for A7 and Corsair, and possibly for F14.
F15 was never the son of F16, but a complement (hi end = F15, low = F16). F15 replaced mainly Phantom.

 

[Ak01]

b

We've discussed the F-16 issue to death in the F-16 thread today. Kindly stay on topic, its a JF-17 thread.

Pakistan needs to urgently upgrade its JF-17 block I and II's with JF-17 block III's radars to integrate PL-15 into it. The rest of the featured upgrade to block III can happen slowly as they are more extensive.

block 1's will be retired.

 

[Ali_Baba]

b

block 1's will be retired.

What is the probability of Mirage 3/5(ROSE variants) continuing to serve the PAF for longer than JF17 Block I's will that were meant to replace them ? Will that overlap happen/take place?

 

[Ak01]

What is the probability of Mirage 3/5(ROSE variants) continuing to serve the PAF for longer than JF17 Block I's will that were meant to replace them ? Will that overlap happen/take place?

probably tbh.

mirages are our b52's. Theyve been extensively re worked, doing this for jf-17 then requires more development and costs to be absorbed for a platform that will be phased out.

The JF-17 is a victim of its requirements from the outset, you dont have a ton of growth room. The F-16 has another 50 years of service in it, cant say the same for the JF-17.

 

[Taimoor]

The F-16 has another 50 years of service in it

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

The technical parameters of WS-21 have not been announced yet and are still confidential. Judging from its performance on the J-35 series fighters, it should have surpassed the RD-93 engine by a lot.

In theory, there is no technical obstacle for the JF-17 series fighters to use the WS-21 engine. The working principle of the core engine of the WS-21 engine is exactly the same as that of the RD-93 engine, but some materials and production processes of the core engine are different. The technology of the engine accessory casing is derived from the WS-19 engine, which is somewhat different from the RD-93 engine.
That is, if the JF-17 switches to the WS-21 engine, the fuselage will need to be modified to a certain extent, but the changes will not be large.

Since Pakistan does not have a relevant test environment, if the JF-17 is to switch to the WS-21 engine, the relevant testing work can only be carried out at CAC. But we have not obtained any relevant information at present.

Pakistan has already purchased one WS-21 engine. But I am not sure what it is actually used for in Pakistan at the moment.

They maybe trying it with JF17 themselves?

 

[Ak01]

View attachment 134839

takes it like a champ though! gd did good.

 

[Taimoor]

takes it like a champ though! gd did good.

On a serious note, I hope the F16 tolla in PAF is not selling this idea of fighting the aliens with F16s.

 

[Ak01]

On a serious note, I hope the F16 tolla in PAF is not selling this idea of fighting the aliens with F16s.

maybe not, but the F-16 is highly relevant and will stay relevant and supported longer than most of us will stay alive. That in itself is a HUGEEE merit for the F-16, it will remain supported by the OEM. No other fighter out there like it.

 

[Scorpio]

Any other

I don't know the production situation of JF-17B3. Has it stopped production? This needs to be confirmed by Pakistani friends.
If it has really stopped production, I guess the possible reason is related to one of my previous analysis.

JF-17B3 is in a rather embarrassing situation!

The avionics technology of the JF-17B3 is basically at the same generation level as that of the J-10C. Many of the internal components between them are exactly the same, but there are differences in the scale of the components. However, the engine of the JF-17B3 limits the working ability of these avionics. These avionics have to be in low-power operation mode for a long time and cannot reach the best state.
This is a bit like the CPU in a personal computer. The same generation of i7 CPU is divided into desktop version and notebook version.

If the JF-17B3 replaces the RD-93 engine with the WS-21 engine, the problem of insufficient power supply can be solved. But it will face another problem of "cost".

The JF-17B3 now costs more than $30 million. If the RD-93 engine is replaced with the WS-21 engine, its cost will exceed $40 million.
The price of the J-10CE is $40-60 million (different configurations, different prices. The PAF currently uses the top-of-the-line version of the J-10CE, which is estimated to cost about $54 million per unit.).

In this case, what would you choose?

Any other Engine option then WS-21, with better power then RD-93 but cost effective option ?

 

[Pak-Warrior]

b

block 1's will be retired.

Yeah by 2040s probably. Not any time soon. We are phasing out very inferior F-7Ps recently which were procured in 1988. Still using F-7pgs. I don't see any reason to retire a platform which has much better avionics, weapon capabilities, range and utilities then the platforms already in service (F-7s, mirages).

Even earlier F-16s can't carry any stand off weapon. No integration allowed. Requires expensive maintenance. Block1s, If am not mistaken can carry CM401s, Can do integration for Taimurs and other stuff which we can't do with F-sola.

 

[Taimoor]

maybe not, but the F-16 is highly relevant and will stay relevant and supported longer than most of us will stay alive. That in itself is a HUGEEE merit for the F-16, it will remain supported by the OEM. No other fighter out there like it.

Yes, F16s will remain alive and kicking, its one of the most versatile jet ever produced, BUT, in PAF, the nature of threats we are facing and will likely endure in future, its utility is diminishing and already been relegated to third tier. You do realise that in aerial battle with IAF, none of our F16s were involved. Even in marg-bar-saramchar, they were not used.

 

[Ak01]

be

Yeah by 2040s probably. Not any time soon. We are phasing out very inferior F-7Ps recently which were procured in 1988. Still using F-7pgs. I don't see any reason to retire a platform which has much better avionics, weapon capabilities, range and utilities then the platforms already in service (F-7s, mirages).

Even earlier F-16s can't carry any stand off weapon. No integration allowed. Requires expensive maintenance. Block1s, If am not mistaken can carry CM401s, Can do integration for Taimurs and other stuff which we can't do with F-sola.

because it not about age, or when they were procured, instead about airframe life and operational use/tempo.

block 1's picked up a ton of use. I think they'll leave us early 2030's.

 

[Ak01]

Yes, F16s will remain alive and kicking, its one of the most versatile jet ever produced, BUT, in PAF, the nature of threats we are facing and will likely endure in future, its utility is diminishing and already been relegated to third tier. You do realise that in aerial battle with IAF, none of our F16s were involved. Even in marg-bar-saramchar, they were not used.

I dont think this means a ton, F-16s still played a vital role in CAP's etc, even if they werent a part of the offensive strike pkg. Though, if they were V's i bet you they would have been.

 

[Scorpio]

Yes, F16s will remain alive and kicking, its one of the most versatile jet ever produced, BUT, in PAF, the nature of threats we are facing and will likely endure in future, its utility is diminishing and already been relegated to third tier. You do realise that in aerial battle with IAF, none of our F16s were involved. Even in marg-bar-saramchar, they were not used.

US Restrictions .....
Limited BRV range .....
No link17 for part of centralized eco system (only link 16 , which can only talk to saab)....