JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[RajaBaja]

I’ll give you the design now; it’s the McDonnell Douglas JAST design. A fully worked out design. Sure it has to be scaled down for the smaller diameter and length engine, but it’s a very modern design; it even has a “Pelikan tail”.

IMHO, it’s not about having a design as much as waiting on the engine to mature and our own facilities to catch up in production capabilities and financing. If we work on fully training our engineers to learn how to do all the work as independently as possible, have the facilities to make the planes and finally have the financing to fund a run of over a 100 planes, this jet could be ready in a decade and replacing older JF-17 by 2035-2040.

View attachment 143141

This model is on display at the western museum of flight in Torrance, CA, on the wall, next to the YF-23 model.
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I wish things were this simple. I have all the 5th gen scaled models and many 4th gen also. Is it that easy to draw them in CAD and manufacture? No. That's bein on "hopium".

The design is always done with engines in mind or secured through some deal or internally made. The design then goes through super computing models for all testing parameters. If your design isn't solid, you can put Rolls Royce or GE, the plane will crash. So you perfect the design first. Later comes the engine integration. Because engine dimensions were already kept in mind when the plane was being designed, they nicely fit.

Pakistan can't build an engine. Even with 100% TOT it will take us 5-7 years to build all the supply chain and development facilities. So better to contract this part out to China and focus on the rest of the jet.

 

[FuturePAF]

I wish things were this simple. I have all the 5th gen scaled models and many 4th gen also. Is it that easy to draw them in CAD and manufacture? No. That's bein on "hopium".

The design is always done with engines in mind or secured through some deal or internally made. The design then goes through super computing models for all testing parameters. If your design isn't solid, you can put Rolls Royce or GE, the plane will crash. So you perfect the design first. Later comes the engine integration. Because engine dimensions were already kept in mind when the plane was being designed, they nicely fit.

Pakistan can't build an engine. Even with 100% TOT it will take us 5-7 years to build all the supply chain and development facilities. So better to contract this part out to China and focus on the rest of the jet.

As we see with all the various designs coming out of China, and to be showcased in the upcoming parade, I’m sure work on a design could be done in collaboration with the expertise and facilities of a Chinese firm.

I referenced the JAST design because it mirrors many of the design outlined under project AZM and actually looks very similar to the PFX design shown.

If we look at the design given by the Air Force at 0:38 in the following news clip, we can see many similarities with the JAST design. From 1:10 you can see the Pelikan tail design.

Finally, knowing the end goal of the WS-19 project and china’s advancements/trajectory in engine technology, designing a fighter around this engine, considering the time it will take to field the PFX, seems only prudent.

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From the documentary “Battle of the X-planes” from 45:35-50:00 we can see the Pelikan tail has been shown to be potentially viable, and if we see how China has chosen the Lambda wing and canted to “retractable” tail option on the J-50, we can see they have advanced the concept into a flying prototype.

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While the PAF waits for the WS-19 program to advance, they have an interim platform in mind; the PFX-Alpha.

 

[Ak01]

If I was running the PFX program, I would ask the Chinese to give us a 5th gen design as PFX. For example, on this forum, there is a thread comparing the J-50 to Flanker series. It seems as they turned the flanker design into full stealth and added internal bays in a stealthy design. We are lucky to have the world's top R&D connected with us as "Iron Brothers" so we should use their expertise for faster production of weapons and grow our internal talent.

If a PFX single engine 5th gen design is taken from the Chinese, they would run super computing based simulation testing and any defects can be identified through the super computing testing environment and design fixed quickly and re-tested. Once simulations are run without issues, they will go straight to wind tunnel tests and finalize that design. They will also tell us how to re-program the JF-17 assembly line to produce this new PFX design when we are ready.

Engine issues will iron out automatically. China is very near in finalizing mass production of a few jet engines soon.

@JamD some evening entertainment for you

 

[RajaBaja]

As we see with all the various designs coming out of China, and to be showcased in the upcoming parade, I’m sure work on a design could be done in collaboration with the expertise and facilities of a Chinese firm.

I referenced the JAST design because it mirrors many of the design outlined under project AZM and actually looks very similar to the PFX design shown.

If we look at the design given by the Air Force at 0:38 in the following news clip, we can see many similarities with the JAST design. From 1:10 you can see the Pelikan tail design.

Finally, knowing the end goal of the WS-19 project and china’s advancements/trajectory in engine technology, designing a fighter around this engine, considering the time it will take to field the PFX, seems only prudent.

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From the documentary “Battle of the X-planes” from 45:35-50:00 we can see the Pelikan tail has been shown to be potentially viable, and if we see how China has chosen the Lambda wing and canted to “retractable” tail option on the J-50, we can see they have advanced the concept into a flying prototype.

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While the PAF waits for the WS-19 program to advance, they have an interim platform in mind; the PFX-Alpha.

Your points are valid but the PAF is looking for a single engine option. Perhaps we can ask the Chinese to create a J-50 design based on single engine? Our manufacturing can be re-programmed to produce a different jet and it's parts also

 

[ghazi52]

This beautiful air craft turns 22 years old today! From shooting down iranian drones to destroying the “most dangerous” air defence system on the planet (not to mention the Mig-29). The JF-17 has proved its worth and will always be the pride of Pakistan.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]

 

[JamD]

@JamD some evening entertainment for you

Of course China is our father's servant.

 

[FuturePAF]

Your points are valid but the PAF is looking for a single engine option. Perhaps we can ask the Chinese to create a J-50 design based on single engine? Our manufacturing can be re-programmed to produce a different jet and it's parts also

There is also the possibility, as Pakistan knows it could probably get a good deal going for a Turkish “Startup” option of the KAAN, but go with the single engine option. The Turks have done much work on that design, and getting in early enough could get Pakistan much tech transfers including engine tech. It’s a 10-15 year process, but IMHO, defiantly worth considering.

The PAF maybe continue JF-17 development under the PFX-Alpha program and start the PFX with Turkey; a medium weight fighter that can replace most of the fleet. Two separate production lines and programs with two separate partners, helping Pakistan keep up.

 

[RajaBaja]

There is also the possibility, as Pakistan knows it could probably get a good deal going for a Turkish “Startup” option of the KAAN, but go with the single engine option. The Turks have done much work on that design, and getting in early enough could get Pakistan much tech transfers including engine tech. It’s a 10-15 year process, but IMHO, defiantly worth considering.

The PAF maybe continue JF-17 development under the PFX-Alpha program and start the PFX with Turkey; a medium weight fighter that can replace most of the fleet. Two separate production lines and programs with two separate partners, helping Pakistan keep up.

View attachment 143336

Pakistan will introduce both twin engine stealth jets, the J-35A and the KAAN.

Turkiye's aircraft industry is not there to give you a model of KAAN's single engine jet with proper details I outlined. They are too focused on KAAN and their drones. If you wanted to attempt anything like this, China is your best best. Turkey can't beat the Chinese R&D and industrial base.

If we were in 2010, Turkiye would be a great option as it's military industrial complex is based on a mix of US + European tech. It has access to material, technology and labor from European defense companies.

But this is 2025, like we saw with J-10C and PL-15, Chinese equipment is on par, if not better in some aspects vs. the Europeans. So we have a great relationship with China, utilizing it should be our first priority as they are number 2 in defense R&D in the entire world and number 1 in most advance manufacturing.

 

[Scorpio]

Happy Birthday to the pride of Pakistan, the JF-17 Thunder!
For more than two decades, this multirole fighter has ruled the skies with combat-proven power ️
22 years ago, the Thunder took flight for the very first time… and history was never the same.

 

[Ali_Baba]

This beautiful air craft turns 22 years old today! From shooting down iranian drones to destroying the “most dangerous” air defence system on the planet (not to mention the Mig-29). The JF-17 has proved its worth and will always be the pride of Pakistan.


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The J1F17C has not as yet shot down a fighter jet. The Mig29 belongs to either the J10CE or a HQ-9BE.

 

[studsmart]

The J1F17C has not as yet shot down a fighter jet. The Mig29 belongs to either the J10CE or a HQ-9BE.

Mig29upg and or Su30MKI was shot down by JF17C ... but just because all rafel were shot down by J10C they got most of the press [rightly so]

 

[Ali_Baba]

Mig29upg and or Su30MKI was shot down by JF17C ... but just because all rafel were shot down by J10C they got most of the press [rightly so]

no no no no no and no..

The shootdowns of all jets by the PAF have been confirmed 'officially' by the PAF as having been done by the J10CE.

JF17C has no fast jet air to air kills. Only a UAV ( Iranian ) to its name.

 

[studsmart]

no no no no no and no..

The shootdowns of all jets by the PAF have been confirmed 'officially' by the PAF as having been done by the J10CE.

JF17C has no fast jet air to air kills. Only a UAV ( Iranian ) to its name.

all of 7 of them like 4 rafel [or 3] M2000, mig29upg and su30mki?