Joint Defense Agreement: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, news & updates

[Oscar]

@Oscar bro, What's the assessment?

From my catching up -

We dont know what we dont know.

Im still trying to find any reference to any clauses or text.
Just public statements of
"strengthen collective deterrence against any act of aggression." -

"Any armed attack against any one of the three States shall be regarded as an attack against them all." - Armed attack by who? Iran, India, Greece, Houthis, TTP, TTA, Greenpeace activists? No idea what the actual text is.

"all aspects of defence co-operation" - Turkey and Pakistan have full fledged Mil-industry complexes - Army Inc as they say - will that be part of aspects? In seriousness - what are be hypothesizing against?

If you pardon my skepticism against any analysis - whether conservative or overly hyperbolic.

On whatsapp I have uncles forwarding ideas of Pakistan moving nuclear warheads to Turkey - while anti-establishment cultists are pushing youtube stories on having spoken to their close friends in GHQ Pakistan and say it basically is current Pakistani leadership's escape plan.

Both are extreme views based on total hearsay - and even the so called reliable sources are making up theories based on "we know this , therefore this".

One probing question I have - what is this pact's status versus the pact signed by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia(whose text we ALSO DO NOT KNOW OF) and what is the status of THAT PACT with this signed.

Are they mutually exclusive or does this one supplant/replace the other?

 

[HAIDER]

He happens to be another pro-IRGC fella wishing for Iranian missiles to fall on his own homeland, Egypt.

Majority Egyptian and Jordanian now support IRGC. Do you think is that easy to fight Solo Super power and Israel rest GCC at same time for months, when facing sanction for the last 47 years !!!!!!!!!!!!111

 

[Eşbah]

From my catching up -

We dont know what we dont know.

Im still trying to find any reference to any clauses or text.
Just public statements of
"strengthen collective deterrence against any act of aggression." -

"Any armed attack against any one of the three States shall be regarded as an attack against them all." - Armed attack by who? Iran, India, Greece, Houthis, TTP, TTA, Greenpeace activists? No idea what the actual text is.

"all aspects of defence co-operation" - Turkey and Pakistan have full fledged Mil-industry complexes - Army Inc as they say - will that be part of aspects? In seriousness - what are be hypothesizing against?

If you pardon my skepticism against any analysis - whether conservative or overly hyperbolic.

On whatsapp I have uncles forwarding ideas of Pakistan moving nuclear warheads to Turkey - while anti-establishment cultists are pushing youtube stories on having spoken to their close friends in GHQ Pakistan and say it basically is current Pakistani leadership's escape plan.

Both are extreme views based on total hearsay - and even the so called reliable sources are making up theories based on "we know this , therefore this".

One probing question I have - what is this pact's status versus the pact signed by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia(whose text we ALSO DO NOT KNOW OF) and what is the status of THAT PACT with this signed.

Are they mutually exclusive or does this one supplant/replace the other?

It's quite funny that at the same time the Turkish-Pakistani mutual defense understanding, which isn't even written on a piece of paper, goes unchallenged and nobody questions it substance or relevance. Why? The relationship is so profound, interconnected, and enduring that it is well understood both regionally and globally that they will stand by each other in all circumstances. This kind of relationship is worth a 1000 official mutual defense agreements.

People in Turkey aren't questioning Pakistan's loyalty BTW. Rather, everybody is talking about how trustworthy Saudi Arabia is in case of an emergency...

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Not Iran Or Israel, New Saudi-Turkey-Pak Defence Pact Is Against India: Shishir Gupta Explains How​

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[Umar]

What are Saudi Arabia, Turkiye and Pakistan’s joint military capabilities?

The Mecca defence pact combines a top oil exporter, NATO's second-largest army and the only Muslim nuclear arsenal.

www.aljazeera.com

Combined strength of Turkey-Saudi Arabia and Pakistan

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

The Mecca Pact: What Does The New Pakistan-Saudi-Turkey Deal Mean For India?​

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[Mr X]

Not Iran Or Israel, New Saudi-Turkey-Pak Defence Pact Is Against India: Shishir Gupta Explains How​

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To be honest, I don’t think it has much to do with India. I’m not sure why we keep bringing India into the discussion, although the agreement could certainly serve as a deterrent against India.

I don’t foresee any major war with India in the foreseeable future. As for smaller-scale Op Sindoor type skirmishes, Pakistan is already capable of responding appropriately, and additional support from China is already very useful.

I see this agreement as being mainly about two things:

1) Strengthening the defence capabilities of Pakistan, Türkiye and Saudi Arabia.

2) Providing Saudi Arabia with greater protection against Israel.

Beyond that, I don’t see much else to it.

That said, we may see Pakistani and Turkish submarines and frigates operating around the Bab el-Mandeb, given that Saudi Arabia has only a relatively small navy and its naval capabilities remain the weakest area of its armed forces.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

To be honest, I don’t think it has much to do with India. I’m not sure why we keep bringing India into the discussion, although the agreement could certainly serve as a deterrent against India.

I don’t foresee any major war with India in the foreseeable future. As for smaller-scale Op Sindoor type skirmishes, Pakistan is already capable of responding appropriately, and additional support from China is already very useful.

I see this agreement as being mainly about two things:

1) Strengthening the defence capabilities of Pakistan, Türkiye and Saudi Arabia.

2) Providing Saudi Arabia with greater protection against Israel.

Beyond that, I don’t see much else to it.

That said, we may see Pakistani and Turkish submarines and frigates operating around the Bab el-Mandeb, given that Saudi Arabia has only a relatively small navy and its naval capabilities remain the weakest area of its armed forces.

Maybe they're worried exactly for this reason! Now that Bharat is largely pacified, thanks to Ops Sindoor, the Pak Deep State is doing all sorts of geo-strategic "gymnastics". Since it's a zero-sum and inversely-proportional game, Bharat must be in a mood of dead melancholy.....

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Why the Mecca Agreement is a necessary show of force | The David Hearst Podcast​

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[RealNapster]

Looks like Iran has accepted this alliance

View attachment 210136

To be frank, this alliance need people that are not afraid of a fight. Before Egypt (who is known for its dubious role when it comes to Israel), I will instead want IRAN to be the 4th country, to join and than Kuwait.

Also, the very first objective of this alliance should be establishing interoperability between these countries. Pakistani soldiers can not operate a single equipment of iran military because they are not trained in doing so. Same goes for turkey-iran and turkey-pakistsn to some extent. They should try very hard to ensure that base weaponry of these three (4 if you count iran) countries are same. This will be a very big advantage in case a war irrupts..

 

[Eşbah]

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lol

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Why Türkiye, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan just formed a new military alliance​

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[Anatolia]

Your correct in saying back in the days we had nothing, so they were only paper led alliances, but I guess that's how everything starts, with some failures and slowly a real defence pact. Pakistan and Turkey are already great allies, during wars they will help each other no matter what, its historical ties. Saudia and Turkey were not close only a few years back but Saudi and Pakistan are close allies so Saudia requested Pakistan for a formal pact to make sure Al Saud royals/Saudia is protected just incase everything goes downhill, we witnessed how ISIS was hijacked and threatened Saudia, AlQaida threat, Iranian/Houthi threat, so alarms are ringing in Riyadh. Pakistan always wanted a Muslim Nato, for many decades we encouraged this but nothing was done, even during this war our leadership encouraged Saudia and Turkey to not start a war on Iran because of the bigger threat in the region, Pakistan also encouraged Iran to not target Saudia and Turkey, to make sure no internal Muslim war starts. Pakistan then requested Turkey to join the pact aswell.

Although I have my suspecious about the pact but I can see the benefits, with Turkish advance military weaponary, they need investment, buyers, and Saudia has the wealth, Pakistan has the nukes and powerful military. The 3 if work together can sort out alot of the issues facing Muslims in the middleeast. I can see Egypt, Kuwait, Bahrain, Syria, Qatar, Jordan joining down the line. The chance of Iran joining this pact is nil.

The past is the past, and that’s exactly why I responded to Watandar the way I did. He keeps implying that “it failed before so it will fail again,” but that logic doesn’t hold up. It failed in the past because Muslim countries produced nothing. Everyone was a customer, nobody was a producer. You can’t build a serious alliance when every member is dependent on foreign weapons and foreign permission. Things are different now ...but honestly, this kind of alliance still feels about a decade too early.

And when it comes to Pakistan and Türkiye, we don’t need a piece of paper to be close. When India attacked, we helped. We didn’t need a treaty, a pact, or some fancy acronym. We helped so much that India launched a “boycott Türkiye tourism” campaign out of frustration. That’s what real partnership looks like. Now imagine what that looks like in five years when our weapons programs fully mature. Like I said: we don’t need any damn treaty to help Pakistan.

Saudi Arabia is a different story. How are we supposed to trust them? They’ve openly seen us as rivals for a century. We had no cooperation because they didn’t need us... they had the US and the West as their protectors. Türkiye wasn’t even in their strategic thinking. Suddenly, after Iran humiliated them, we’re in an alliance together? That’s not a foundation built on trust; that’s a reaction to vulnerability.

And this idea that Kuwait, Bahrain, Jordan, Syria, and whoever else might join… that’s how you accidentally turn this into a NATO-style mess. NATO is a perfect example of what happens when you add states that bring no real weight. If Russia attacked some of those smaller members, the big powers wouldn’t actually do anything. So what happens here? If Iran attacks Kuwait, are we supposed to come to their aid? How do you rally your population behind defending a country we share nothing with? That’s the core problem with oversized alliances ..they look strong on paper but collapse when real obligations appear.

I hope for the best, but I expect nothing. Alliances only work when they’re built on genuine shared interests, not panic, not symbolism, and not sudden shifts after decades of distance.

 

[BaybarsHan]

Against whom exactly is this pact directed? That's the point of contention. Iran, Israel, and India claim it's aimed at them. This very ambiguity is intentional. Immediately after the pact's inception, the founding states stated it wasn't an offensive pact and wasn't formed against any specific country. No one should feel safe, do they mean me? Surely not me? They'll want to test the pact at some point, probably not militarily, but rather strategically and politically.

 

[mythbuster]

The past is the past, and that’s exactly why I responded to Watandar the way I did. He keeps implying that “it failed before so it will fail again,” but that logic doesn’t hold up. It failed in the past because Muslim countries produced nothing. Everyone was a customer, nobody was a producer. You can’t build a serious alliance when every member is dependent on foreign weapons and foreign permission. Things are different now ...but honestly, this kind of alliance still feels about a decade too early.

And when it comes to Pakistan and Türkiye, we don’t need a piece of paper to be close. When India attacked, we helped. We didn’t need a treaty, a pact, or some fancy acronym. We helped so much that India launched a “boycott Türkiye tourism” campaign out of frustration. That’s what real partnership looks like. Now imagine what that looks like in five years when our weapons programs fully mature. Like I said: we don’t need any damn treaty to help Pakistan.

Saudi Arabia is a different story. How are we supposed to trust them? They’ve openly seen us as rivals for a century. We had no cooperation because they didn’t need us... they had the US and the West as their protectors. Türkiye wasn’t even in their strategic thinking. Suddenly, after Iran humiliated them, we’re in an alliance together? That’s not a foundation built on trust; that’s a reaction to vulnerability.

And this idea that Kuwait, Bahrain, Jordan, Syria, and whoever else might join… that’s how you accidentally turn this into a NATO-style mess. NATO is a perfect example of what happens when you add states that bring no real weight. If Russia attacked some of those smaller members, the big powers wouldn’t actually do anything. So what happens here? If Iran attacks Kuwait, are we supposed to come to their aid? How do you rally your population behind defending a country we share nothing with? That’s the core problem with oversized alliances ..they look strong on paper but collapse when real obligations appear.

I hope for the best, but I expect nothing. Alliances only work when they’re built on genuine shared interests, not panic, not symbolism, and not sudden shifts after decades of distance.

Not a holistic approach at all.... purpose of this alliance is not just the protection of Saudi Arabia , Turkey and Pakistan rather to bring stability in middle east and protection of small vulnerable states.... Pakistan and Turkey don't need this alliance , both can do without it ...agree on this part.