Makkah Defence Alliance: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, news & updates

[r3alist]

it is a sign that nationalism is a trick played on gullible people by criminals so they can engage in war profiteering.

Well durrr

Nonetheless nationalism protects smaller less powerful nations, it's a wrapper that gives them theoretical sovereignty otherwise you want them exploited

There is nothing more deranicating than Pakistani identity.

. Its constituent units have been speaking their own native languages centuries before Pakistan even came into existence

And they still do, so you are contradicting yourself, they are rooted to what they have always been,and equally changed by globalisation to the extent they allowed

But the official language in the country is Urdu

Every country needs a Lingua Franca

 

[El Sidd]

The world is moving to nationalism at the same time criminal cabals are becoming more powerful and brazen all over the world. E.g. the US becoming more aggressive and militaristic with a criminal like Trump in power, India becoming more aggressive with a puppet of a corrupt billionaire tycoon in power, Pakistan becoming a dictatorship because the criminals families controlling PPP + PMLN wanted to avoid going to prison. Idk what you think of that, but to me, it is a sign that nationalism is a trick played on gullible people by criminals so they can engage in war profiteering.

On the topic of deracination. There is nothing more deranicating than Pakistani identity. Pakistan is a multiethnic country. Its constituent units have been speaking their own native languages centuries before Pakistan even came into existence. But the official language in the country is Urdu. The ethnic nations in Balochistan and Khyber Pakhunkhwa are cut off from the native lands their ancestors traversed long before Pakistan existed.

Pakistan is a country formed after democratic political struggle to forge a new identity. A concept of supernation rather than just another nation.

Such progressive thought process is not easily acceptable to tribal nations.

 

[Master Chief]

Another imposter


Neojinnah..... Named after the person who fought for borders


They always give it away in the names they choose

Not sure. @Neojinnah sahib talks sense in another thread. The truth may be more nuanced! Anyway, all opinions are welcome here. I might speculate that the experiences of @Neojinnah are necessarily realistic if he has been based in the fully "globalised village" of the Gulf states for a long time.

On the one hand, who am I to judge?

On the other hand, I am inclined to speak strongly against any suggestion of harm to Pakistan's hard won and most cherished sovereign status, as will 99% of folks here on this thread. What on earth did Jinnah fight for if not this?

 

[r3alist]

Why do you think we cannot produce such complicated people?

I think creating and cosplaying as a subversive alt on the internet is an act of self debasement, link minded people simply wont be inclined or bothered

 

[Master Chief]

Why do you think we cannot produce such complicated people?

Yes. He's definitely related to you. And yes, that is a backhanded compliment.

 

[r3alist]

Not sure. @Neojinnah sahib talks sense in another thread. The truth may be more nuanced! Anyway, all opinions are welcome here. I might speculate that the experiences of @Neojinnah are necessarily realistic if he has been based in the fully "globalised village" of the Gulf states for a long time.

On the one hand, who am I to judge?

On the other hand, I am inclined to speak strongly against any suggestion of harm to Pakistan's hard won and most cherished sovereign status, as will 99% of folks here on this thread. What on earth did Jinnah fight for if not this?

Ok fair enough, then I retract and offer apologies

 

[Master Chief]

My criticism is with Pakistan itself and the positions it has taken in regards to Afghanistan and its own Pashtun people. It has spent the last 80 years at war with Pashtuns. This is undeniable. It kept the leading Pashtun leader in the region in prison. It set up terror camps all over NWFP and FATA to militarize the region, flooded them with drugs, facilitated a decades long civil war against Afghanistan which basically destroyed the fabric of their society, and all just to preserve the Durand Line.

Pakistanis have to suffer from terror, a drug epidemic, instability and the poverty which comes with it for a border. I am told endlessly about how important this border is, but for some reason Pakistan just keeps on getting worse and worse while preserving this border.

Nobody said the challenge was easy. It can be easily managed though with the right decisions.

This particular discussion is best served on the Afg-Pak thread.

By the way, the problems you mention in your last paragraph are problems we got from having an OPEN border. Closing it will virtually end those problems. Afghanistan is lawless. Talibs engage in the crimes you mentioned (and corrupt trading/smuggling) themselves, in order to generate their own income. Inevitably, these problems will enter Pakistan because of laxity at the border. Closing that same border will help them by forcing them to choose a better lifestyle and it will obviously help us.

 

[El Sidd]

I think creating and cosplaying as a subversive alt on the internet is an act of self debasement, link minded people simply wont be inclined or bothered

You been spending too much time with Yasser76.

Yes. He's definitely related to you. And yes, that is a backhanded compliment.

Don't worry I won't abandon him like I won't abandon you. We are all related through Pakistan.

 

[mythbuster]

You are only thinking about this from the lens of the status quo and trying to justify it. So there's nothing wrong with maintaining hostility and tensions for decades because you can just making sure you spend enough on your military to avoid the other country overturning the status quo.

I am thinking outside the status quo and what the world could have been. Pakistan suffers from terrorism, a drug epidemic, two insurgencies on the Western front, misallocation of capital away from human development to military, and much more, because of refusing to budge on the Durand Line.

Not to mention the correct analogy here isn't Turkey and Armenia but Turkey and their war with the Arabs against the emergence of a Kurdish nation. So much energy went into erasing the national identity of another group of people, keeping them suppressed, fighting nationalist groups, etc to maintain a status quo which will never make sense to me (though I'm an outsider).

In essence your are saying accept LOC as international border with India and kpk upto Indus to Afghanistan...
So you are a neo Jinnah who wants to be father of new nation called Pistan.

 

[mythbuster]

What is your identity then if not one given to you by Pakistan?

Everyone is living in some sort of hell hole with some sort of dictatorship.

His identity is Pistani not Pakistani.

 

[Pakistani Dragon]

Thanks to whoever update the thread title.

 

[El Sidd]

His identity is Pistani not Pakistani.

He is just another revolutionary. A Niazist

 

[r3alist]

In essence your are saying accept LOC as international border with India and kpk upto Indus to Afghanistan...
So you are a neo Jinnah who wants to be father of new nation called Pistan.

Ok so piecing it together he is one of those ethno nationalist pashtuns garbed as post nationalist, post borders, Canada based, liberal (multi cultural Canada good, multi ethnic Pakistan bad), first world coded judgement on third world nations...but all for the tribe


The Taliban are simply never at fault, as if the most stubborn tribals in human existence were being manipulated, not that they are fighting a war to win more backwardness for 50 years .....

 

[mythbuster]

He is just another revolutionary. A Niazist

Revolution is a vicious cycle , most revolutionaries end up at the guillotine.

 

[El Sidd]

Ok so piecing it together he is one of those ethno nationalist pashtuns garbed as post nationalist, post borders, Canada based, liberal (multi cultural Canada good, multi ethnic Pakistan bad), first world coded judgement on third world nations...but all for the tribe


The Taliban are simply never at fault, as if the most stubborn tribals in human existence were being manipulated, not that they are fighting a war to win more backwardness for 50 years .....

Ten bucks say he ain't Pashtun.