Makkah Joint Defense Agreement: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, news & updates

[hyperman]

Iraqi airspace

The Iraqis don't control Iraqi airspace, the US does. Its the only country with air defense in Iraq. Iraq was used as a base and launchpad for attacks into Iran.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Now that KSA, Pakistan, and Turkey have officially announced their joint defense agreement...
I think they need to do 2 major things to really make it count..if they are to be taken seriously by their adversaries(consider it my wishlist)

1) Keep it just here for now...just between these 3 countries. Don't expand this pact. Don't add other nations yet. It would bring in more problems(each additional nation's geopolitics and the mess).
2) The three nations need to develop together SSBNs(throw a bunch of money, resources, and expertise) and SLBMs.
- Saudi money, Turkish tech(e.g. MILDEN), Pakistan's know how of ballistic missiles and nuclear warheads...the three can easily work towards(in a feasible amount of time) the development of SSBNs with SLBMs(nuke tipped). Use that second strike capability to provide nuclear umbrella to KSA and Turkey.

Of course all the other stuff like joint training exercises, defense equipment compatibility/commonality, developing doctrines and war gaming to be able to fight as one effective force when needed is also going to help a lot...but the above two things alone would give it teeth and credibility...
...keep any enemies at bay.

The SC
Oscar

 

[hyperman]

This could have included Egypt as well, but Sisi bitched out. lol

 

[Watandar]

Yes we are obeying Saudi Agenda.. remind me ..how many of our divisions are near Sanaa ? how many near Tehran? All you do is spew uninformed conjecture and cerebral diarrhoea across this forum.

No answer to my queries. All you have is empty boasts and then curses when called out.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

Not correct. Bashar Al Assad government was secular arab nationalist government, their allies were Iran and Russia, not Israel or the Usa, by removing Al Assad they cut the link between Syria and Hizbollah, remember Syria had 30,000+ troops in Lebanon to protect them from Israel attacks but due to media propaganda and Lebanese falling for it, Syria had to withdraw from Lebanon and within a few years Israel bombed Lebanon and killed 1000s. But Israel still had to finish off Bashar government to completely dominate the region and Netanyahu mentioned Israel has become stronger in the region. The new Syrian government is now being lobbyed by all powers to make a break threw, its still new project so will find out where Syria stands in a few decades time, most likely it will be the next Iraq, a puppet nation of regional players.

I refer you to read Herbert Samuel's Samuel Memorandum... if it was only as simple as that...
The allawites(formerly nusayri) were propped up, a minority among minorities... by the French to make a buffer between zion and Turkiye.
Assad got to do what Assad got to do... Russians allowed bombings of Iranians and he would simultaneously sell out either or both depending on the circumstance.

Suffice to say... zion didn't and doesn't want a border with Turkiye... which is why they extended a buffer of an existing buffer inside Syria. That doesn't project confidence... it is a hedge against, and potentially a path forward into southern Syria... cutting off the druze communities... perhaps even connecting amenable Kurds.

 

[MMM-E]

You give too much importance to Israel. They are 9 million country with no industry to match Turkey. They either win "military victories" against civilians or against failed states (Lebanon, Syria). Without US backing they are nothing.

Dou you think Israel will be alone ?

Greece and India will be with Israel in the Eastern Mediterranean
India creates a massive Navy with over 200 Warships and Submarines by 2035

also , Israel will develop stealth Fighter Jets ( manned and unmanned ) in the next 10 years .. India will join Israeli project

both Turkiye and Pakistan sees this threat

 

[Meengla]

Am I the only one surprised by this announcement today? I knew the Pakistan Army Chief Munir and the PM were going to Saudi Arabia but I thought it would be about some trade/investment deals or to work on Saudi Arabia to de-escalate with Yemen. Turkey's participation, with Erdogan himself going to KSA, was totally unexpected.

PS. But then I have been busy in last three days trying to revive my main laptop which a powerful storm here knocked out. What a pain so not followed the news/events as much.

 

[GoatsMilk]

We have been defending ourselves against india for the past 79 years and we will continue to do so on our own.

That's the nature of sovereignty. Turks spent much of the last 1000 years fighting the entire west alone. Even the hindus were last put under Muslim rule by the Turks. Its nothing unusual that a nation has to fight to secure her sovereignty.

 

[pakistanitarzan]

Why are three women standing behind three leaders ? ...I am not against it , just curious about the intended message.

To make sure when the boys said they were going to hangout with men, they actually meant it and not messing around with other woman.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Am I the only one surprised by this announcement today? I knew the Pakistan Army Chief Munir and the PM were going to Saudi Arabia but I thought it would be about some trade/investment deals or to work on Saudi Arabia to de-escalate with Yemen. Turkey's participation, with Erdogan himself going to KSA, was totally unexpected.

PS. But then I have been busy in last three days trying to revive my main laptop which a powerful storm here knocked out. What a pain so not followed the news/events as much.

Please sir - invest in a surge protector. They cost $15 and will save hundreds in damaged equipment! Everything in my house sits behind a surge protector.

 

[pakistanitarzan]

No sir , ..


UAE will soon submit the application to join along with heartfelt apology letter.

Im still surprised of why the alliance is needed. Its def not against Israel, is it against Iran?

 

[Cookie Monster]

This could have included Egypt as well, but Sisi bitched out. lol

Egypt holds great potential but is more a liability in its current condition. It is completely led by a sold out puppet government and it's military capability is intentionally kept pacified so it would pose no major threat to Israel.
...in that sense if Egypt was to join ..it would weaken the alliance rather than strengthen it.

Egypt can become a powerhouse at least militarily(and has a strategic location) if it has the right leadership...but I'm glad for now Egypt wasn't involved in this.

 

[Ravenman]

Very bad, very stupid, very ignorant and very, very, very retarded Turkish strategy.

Pakistan was India's target last year.
Saudi Arabia is Iran's target this year.

Turkey is nobodies target, but they wanna play war? With their shitty economy?

What were they thinking when they sign this? Was this on Trump's orders to pledge the F35 deal in return?

 

[the vicious kind]

Israelis were ready to attack Kahuta, it was the Indian government that ultimately vetoed the plan, fearing the breakout of a conventional war. There was no Pakistani nuke at the time.

I was responding to your boasts about the size of Pakistani AWACS fleet, that it is bigger that Israel. The point is Israel has its own AWACS/EW assets, access to GCC radars AND NATO satellites and radars.

Does the Israeli Air Force not possess all of these capabilities you mentioned and in greater capacity ?

Do the Turkish or Pakistani air forces currently have the capability to confront and defeat an Israeli attack based on planes, drones and missiles ? No

Can they stop Israeli cyberattacks ? No

Can they detect and foil Mossad ? No

Can Pakistan spare the capacity to fight Israel when it faces India and Afghanistan ? No


What deterrence when you have little to no capacity or capability to fight Israel in the first place ?? You are building sand castles in the air.

Learn your country's history, Pakistan conducted cold tests at Kirana.. years before the planned attack. We were already a Nuclear threeshold state back then.

Can Pakistan guarantee it would defeat every Israeli air, missile and drone attack? Of course not. Can Israel guarantee it could suppress a sizeable, networked air forces, air defences, dispersed aircraft, missiles and retaliatory capability without taking serious unsustainable losses itself? Also no. We have already seen IAFs limititions in Iran theatre ... that too against an adversary that practically has no airforce.

I could go even further and comparethe failed Israeli bunker buster strikes against Iranian facilities built into soft limestone mountains compared with Pakistani underground facilities constructed in much denser quartz rich rock. But I would rather not get into those details, and frankly, you do not seem to have the military understanding to appreciate the distinction anyway.

Can they stop every Israeli cyberattack? No. Can Israel stop every Pakistani cyber operation? No. Cyber warfare does not come with a magical 100 percent interception button and mind you on the morning of 10 may the entire northen indian electriciy grid was offline.

Can they detect and foil every Mossad operation? No. Neither can Mossad detect and foil every hostile intelligence operation against Israel. Intelligence services are capable, not omniscient.

Coming to your last point..
Deterrence does not mean you have to be stronger than Israel. It simply means you have enough capability to hurt them badly enough that attacking you carries serious consequences. Saying we have “Little to no capability” is completely ridiculous.

During this year’s war, Israel is reported to have an interception rate of around 86 percent against Iranian ballistic missiles. This interception rate fell to 65 percent in the last week . Now apply basic nuclear deterrence logic. When even a small possibility exists that a nuclear armed missile could penetrate those defences, the consequences of getting the calculation wrong become catastrophic. That uncertainty is precisely what deterrence is built upon.

Your lack of even a basic understanding of deterrence really shows, and most of your posts amount to little more than ill informed conjecture clouded by your own bias. This Imran Khan messiah complex has become a serious political affliction in Pakistan, where every issue somehow gets filtered through blind loyalty rather than facts or strategic reasoning.

 

[030292]

This could have included Egypt as well, but Sisi bitched out. lol

Sisi knows whats on the horizon and he wants no part in it.