Mirage III / V of Pakistan Air Force

[Ali_Baba]

They are completely reliable and fly daily in CCS, simulating actual combat scenarios. The role for F-7PG is air superiority which can't be employed against India but it can shoot down Afghan aircraft.

Afghanistan has no aircraft.

 

[AeronautIR]

Afghanistan has no aircraft.

I don't know about airworthiness of their Cessna and A-29, but I have seen videos of their helicopters in air. Recently, one of their Mi-17 crashed too.

 

[Yasser76]

They are completely reliable and fly daily in CCS, simulating actual combat scenarios. The role for F-7PG is air superiority which can't be employed against India but it can shoot down Afghan aircraft.

That is a VERY niche role. Also the only base that has our last operational PG Sqd also has a Block II JF-17 sqd. No point in the PG anymore

 

[Yasser76]

I don't know about airworthiness of their Cessna and A-29, but I have seen videos of their helicopters in air. Recently, one of their Mi-17 crashed too.

These are a bigger threat to the pilots then to Pakistan

 

[AeronautIR]

These are a bigger threat to the pilots then to Pakistan

True but beside the point regarding reliability of Mirages and F-7PG.

 

[Michael]

I think PAF will get a couple of J-35 for evaluation in 2026, with operational induction in 2027 insha Allah

Your timeline is overly optimistic. PAF's actual work efficiency may not reach that level.

General analysis:

SAC currently does have a small number of J-35A (WS-21 engine) fighter jets. These will be used for public evaluation by international customers of the FC-31/J-35 fighter jet. You can consider these J-35A (WS-21 engine) fighter jets as the top-of-the-line version of the FC-31/J-35 fighter jet.

After the general evaluation, international customers will resubmit customized requirements. For example, radar configuration, avionics configuration, cockpit systems, and even stealth solutions (China currently has three known and publicly available stealth solutions, corresponding to different purchase and maintenance costs).

Subsequently, SAC, CETC, AECC, and other relevant partners will submit price lists to CATIC. CATIC will then develop a contract draft incorporating a comprehensive package of services including weapon systems, logistics support, and pilot training, and engage in in-depth negotiations with the PAF. This process could be very lengthy. The core issues will likely involve multiple rounds of negotiations and discussions regarding payment terms. The involvement of a Chinese bank may also be sought.

The new pulsed production line for the J-35 series fighter jets, built by SAC, is expected to begin trial production in 2026. If everything goes smoothly, the production line could ramp up to near or full design capacity in 2027 or 2028.

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Chinese official agencies typically do not release information about predictive, probabilistic, or intended matters. Therefore, they will only announce the arrival of the fighter jet when it is about to appear at a PAF (Pakistan Air Force) airbase.

We can infer the progress by observing changes at various PAF airbases. If a PAF airbase recently begins large-scale construction of new hangar facilities, it might mean that the "new toy" is about to arrive! (5th-generation fighter jets require dedicated hangars and related maintenance facilities.)

 

[AeronautIR]

That is a VERY niche role. Also the only base that has our last operational PG Sqd also has a Block II JF-17 sqd. No point in the PG anymore

You are missing tge context of this discussion. Here is a hypothetical scenario... India and Afghanistan both try to do some incursions and we have to commit all our hi-tech aircraft towards East. Question is, if we need any airpower on West, can we use our Mirages and F-7PG there or not?
If there is no threat from East and I have all JF available, of course I will prefer them over obsolete 3rd Gen low-tech fighters... but if need be, they can be employed in West.

 

[AeronautIR]

Your timeline is overly optimistic. PAF's actual work efficiency may not reach that level.

General analysis:

SAC currently does have a small number of J-35A (WS-21 engine) fighter jets. These will be used for public evaluation by international customers of the FC-31/J-35 fighter jet. You can consider these J-35A (WS-21 engine) fighter jets as the top-of-the-line version of the FC-31/J-35 fighter jet.

After the general evaluation, international customers will resubmit customized requirements. For example, radar configuration, avionics configuration, cockpit systems, and even stealth solutions (China currently has three known and publicly available stealth solutions, corresponding to different purchase and maintenance costs).

Subsequently, SAC, CETC, AECC, and other relevant partners will submit price lists to CATIC. CATIC will then develop a contract draft incorporating a comprehensive package of services including weapon systems, logistics support, and pilot training, and engage in in-depth negotiations with the PAF. This process could be very lengthy. The core issues will likely involve multiple rounds of negotiations and discussions regarding payment terms. The involvement of a Chinese bank may also be sought.

The new pulsed production line for the J-35 series fighter jets, built by SAC, is expected to begin trial production in 2026. If everything goes smoothly, the production line could ramp up to near or full design capacity in 2027 or 2028.

==========================================================

Chinese official agencies typically do not release information about predictive, probabilistic, or intended matters. Therefore, they will only announce the arrival of the fighter jet when it is about to appear at a PAF (Pakistan Air Force) airbase.

We can infer the progress by observing changes at various PAF airbases. If a PAF airbase recently begins large-scale construction of new hangar facilities, it might mean that the "new toy" is about to arrive! (5th-generation fighter jets require dedicated hangars and related maintenance facilities.)

Let's wait and see then... I think we will see the induction ceremony of few aircraft by end 2027, based on current PAF plans and statements by CAS...
Like JF-17 project, it will continue to evolve and final block and total 36 aircraft order will be completed hopefully by 2028-29.

 

[Yasser76]

You are missing tge context of this discussion. Here is a hypothetical scenario... India and Afghanistan both try to do some incursions and we have to commit all our hi-tech aircraft towards East. Question is, if we need any airpower on West, can we use our Mirages and F-7PG there or not?
If there is no threat from East and I have all JF available, of course I will prefer them over obsolete 3rd Gen low-tech fighters... but if need be, they can be employed in West.

Not saying they are useless, but there is an opportunity cost of manpower and resources in operating 20 odd obsolete PGs

 

[kimjongun]

Can the h4 sow be used by jeff after the mirages are retired? or does the jeff only gets the raad/taimoore capabiility we saw...and except the cm400 akg which standoff munition we got from china? cuz im always jealous of indian airforces standoff munitions stockpile

 

[Yasser76]

Can the h4 sow be used by jeff after the mirages are retired? or does the jeff only gets the raad/taimoore capabiility we saw...and except the cm400 akg which standoff munition we got from china? cuz im always jealous of indian airforces standoff munitions stockpile

H4 is now quite dated, we have much better stand off options

 

[AeronautIR]

Not saying they are useless, but there is an opportunity cost of manpower and resources in operating 20 odd obsolete PGs

Agreed... they are mainly used for training now but can be a back up plan in West.

 

[Yasser76]

Agreed... they are mainly used for training now but can be a back up plan in West.

Back up plane should be additional JF-17s.

4 JF-17Cs can have the same effect as 16 PGs....

 

[Michael]

Let's wait and see then... I think we will see the induction ceremony of few aircraft by end 2027, based on current PAF plans and statements by CAS...
Like JF-17 project, it will continue to evolve and final block and total 36 aircraft order will be completed hopefully by 2028-29.

As a Chinese military enthusiast, I certainly hope these wishes will come true soon.

However, so far, we have not seen any official and precise timeline statements from either China or Pakistan.

Acquiring 36 FC-31/J-35 fighter jets would be a significant challenge for the PAF. CATIC would also certainly be unable to bear such a huge financial burden (referencing the PAF's contract to purchase J-10CE aircraft). This would require the involvement of the banking system, which in turn depends on more trade and economic cooperation agreements between China and Pakistan. However, we have not yet seen any signs of this.

 

[Ali_Baba]

We can infer the progress by observing changes at various PAF airbases. If a PAF airbase recently begins large-scale construction of new hangar facilities, it might mean that the "new toy" is about to arrive! (5th-generation fighter jets require dedicated hangars and related maintenance facilities.)

Very interesting point, as most PAF HAS shelters are small and designed to only accommodate single tail fin fighters. J-35A will need new HAS to be created, and it would need to take into account the larger size of KAAN as well for new HAS shelters.