Old/New Articles and News item about PAF

[Gripen9]

Was he really deputed or just evaluating the platform for PAF?

From what I recall, PAF wanted to acquire F-20 with ToT and local production in addition to F-16 (precursor to Sabre-7 project) to replace F-6s . We were looking at 200 - 250 airframes.

 

[Windjammer]

Was he really deputed or just evaluating the platform for PAF?

From what I recall, PAF wanted to acquire F-20 with ToT and local production in addition to F-16 (precursor to Sabre-7 project) to replace F-6s . We were looking at 200 - 250 airframes.

Between 1982 and 1984, a unique opportunity presented itself to try out the Tigershark. Under special instructions from the CAS, Air Vice Marshal Abbas Mirza (Retd), a Gp Capt then, was sent to US on a special assignment to find out ways and means to modernize PAF’s air defence systems. On his arrival, he was deputed with Northrop, to test fly the F-20 and submit an assessment. Abbas Mirza was to become one of the few test pilots to fly one of the F-20s, of which there were only three in operation for demonstration flying.

 

[Quwa]

Great insight, thanks for sharing, if we had gone for F-20 we would have been the first (and maybe only?) export customer and it would have been instead of the F-16 right?

As @Gripen9 noted, it was in addition to the F-16s. In fact, these tests were happening while the F-16s were being delivered to the PAF.

In the early 1980s, the F-16 was still a fairly pricy platform, at least for the PAF, which also needed to replace the F-6s. So, they had a parallel project for a lightweight multirole fighter, and evaluated the F-20.

When that fall through, the PAF worked with CAC and Grumman to modify the F-7 into the Sabre II by giving it the AN/APG-66 radar and GE F404. This got too costly, and Sino-US issues basically killed it.

Then, according to AC Kaiser Tufail, Dassault came and offered the Mirage F-1 with complete ToT plus a huge stockpile of ATAR turbojets. However, the PAF was interested in this interesting test unit where they paired the F-1 with the M53, but as it was a demonstrator, Dassault couldn't offer it.

Finally, by the late 1980s, the prices of the F-16 started to really drop thanks to scale. The general trend of the major F-16 users was to just build a 120-150+ fleet, e.g., Turkey, Egypt, Taiwan, South Korea, etc, and it was no different for where the PAF should technically head to.

By that point, the PAF opted to basically replace the F-6s with F-16s in batches. ACM Qureishi said in an interview in the 1990s that had Peace Gate III/IV completed, the PAF would've started talks for another 50-60 F-16s. So, we're talking like 150-160 F-16s in total.

 

[Gripen9]

Between 1982 and 1984, a unique opportunity presented itself to try out the Tigershark. Under special instructions from the CAS, Air Vice Marshal Abbas Mirza (Retd), a Gp Capt then, was sent to US on a special assignment to find out ways and means to modernize PAF’s air defence systems. On his arrival, he was deputed with Northrop, to test fly the F-20 and submit an assessment. Abbas Mirza was to become one of the few test pilots to fly one of the F-20s, of which there were only three in operation for demonstration flying.

Oh bhai, I know Abbas “Mickey” Mirza personally. I know what he did. You just copy pasted from the article again. I was just questioning the semantics of deputed vs evaluated.

My dad and most probably @Quwa’s as well evaluated MPDRs in depth before acquisition. Doesn’t mean they were deputed to Siemens .

Now PAF pilots and engineering teams tgat spent 5+ years in Chengdu actually Colloborating on the JF17 project is what I will call deputation in this sense.

 

[FarhanSiddiqui]

F-20 and A-7 for the PAF were shelved as our first choice was F-16.

That Time When Pakistan Sought The A-7 Corsair II - Quwa

In 1974 the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) formally requested information on the LTV A-7 Corsair II. A deal for as many as 110 A-7s for the PAF was in the works until the Carter Administration withheld the aircraft in 1977 to avoid destabilizing South Asia and to dissuade Pakistan from nuclear weapons.

quwa.org

 

[Raider 21]

Albeit not related to the OP
Nonetheless it may surprise some of you to learn that sometimes in the 90s AM Shahid Latif was sent to Sweden to evaluate the SAAB Grippen for the PAF.

View attachment 141729

The two pilots who were selected to evaluate it in the 90s with a formal plan didn't materialise, until 2006 when the export restrictions were a bit relaxed on PAF with any tech that involved the US. Also a ride in a fighter jet isn't an evaluation.

 

[Raider 21]

Oh bhai, I know Abbas “Mickey” Mirza personally. I know what he did. You just copy pasted from the article again. I was just questioning the semantics of deputed vs evaluated.

My dad and most probably @Quwa’s as well evaluated MPDRs in depth before acquisition. Doesn’t mean they were deputed to Siemens .

Now PAF pilots and engineering teams tgat spent 5+ years in Chengdu actually Colloborating on the JF17 project is what I will call deputation in this sense.

Abbas Mirza is a legend.....very few could beat him in air combat.

Yes, the title of the threat is a bit misleading. He was sent for an evaluation phase. Grumman would only have “deputed” test pilots from US military and often those people were engineers and graduates of a test pilot school institution, with flying backgrounds……..a practice that doesn’t happen in PAF when it comes to test pilot credentials.

Similar thread : https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/meet-the-man-behind-induction-of-f16-in-paf.10361/

 

[fitpOsitive]

Northop F-20 TigerShark in PAF Colours

View attachment 141720
View attachment 141721

Between 1982 and 1984, the F-20 was extensively evaluated by the Pakistan Air Force, which was considering procuring 100 units. AVM Abbas Mirza (Retd), then a Group Captain was sent to the US and deputed with Northrop to test fly the F-20 and submit an assessment. However, the Tigershark fell short in certain areas of operational requirements of the PAF, and the procurement was shelved.
View attachment 141722
View attachment 141723

This jet looks like thunder

 

[Metal 0-1]

As @Gripen9 noted, it was in addition to the F-16s. In fact, these tests were happening while the F-16s were being delivered to the PAF.

In the early 1980s, the F-16 was still a fairly pricy platform, at least for the PAF, which also needed to replace the F-6s. So, they had a parallel project for a lightweight multirole fighter, and evaluated the F-20.

When that fall through, the PAF worked with CAC and Grumman to modify the F-7 into the Sabre II by giving it the AN/APG-66 radar and GE F404. This got too costly, and Sino-US issues basically killed it.

Then, according to AC Kaiser Tufail, Dassault came and offered the Mirage F-1 with complete ToT plus a huge stockpile of ATAR turbojets. However, the PAF was interested in this interesting test unit where they paired the F-1 with the M53, but as it was a demonstrator, Dassault couldn't offer it.

Finally, by the late 1980s, the prices of the F-16 started to really drop thanks to scale. The general trend of the major F-16 users was to just build a 120-150+ fleet, e.g., Turkey, Egypt, Taiwan, South Korea, etc, and it was no different for where the PAF should technically head to.

By that point, the PAF opted to basically replace the F-6s with F-16s in batches. ACM Qureishi said in an interview in the 1990s that had Peace Gate III/IV completed, the PAF would've started talks for another 50-60 F-16s. So, we're talking like 150-160 F-16s in total.

Mirage F1 ToT. What a time to be alive

 

[Metal 0-1]

This jet looks like thunder

Northrop Grumman was early partner in Sabre II / Super 7 program.
Which eventually led to Jeff.

 

[mythbuster]

Between 1982 and 1984, a unique opportunity presented itself to try out the Tigershark. Under special instructions from the CAS, Air Vice Marshal Abbas Mirza (Retd), a Gp Capt then, was sent to US on a special assignment to find out ways and means to modernize PAF’s air defence systems. On his arrival, he was deputed with Northrop, to test fly the F-20 and submit an assessment. Abbas Mirza was to become one of the few test pilots to fly one of the F-20s, of which there were only three in operation for demonstration flying.

America , when it needs you, knows how to win you over.

 

[Fatman17]

Should be in the PAF archives section. Old hat and nothing happened

 

[headshot]

Oh bhai, I know Abbas “Mickey” Mirza personally. I know what he did. You just copy pasted from the article again. I was just questioning the semantics of deputed vs evaluated.

My dad and most probably @Quwa’s as well evaluated MPDRs in depth before acquisition. Doesn’t mean they were deputed to Siemens .

Now PAF pilots and engineering teams tgat spent 5+ years in Chengdu actually Colloborating on the JF17 project is what I will call deputation in this sense

The man himself says he was already in US on a separate assignment,thats why PAF sent him to Northrop Grumman.
Also talks about their hesitance in allowing him to fly the prototype.

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[SABRE]

Shame, nimble little fighter, but considering PAF had been flying Mirage 3/5s for over 10 years by the point of the evaluation, not surprised it did nit impress

Mirages had strike capability, F-20 was multirole but had limited strike capability, which was further confined due to President Carter's directive (Conventional Arms Transfer or CAT). In fact, F-20 was developed specifically to cater to CAT.

However, F-20 was being offered with ToT to Pakistan, including export/reexport provision. Pakistan should have taken the option along side F-16s. I think the problem arose when the pilot in question - very likely on behest of PAF - requested to flight-test the complete package, i.e., aircraft with weapons integrated on it. Northrop did not approve of it. I wonder if they even had the final - weapons integrated - prototype.

Someone who has more knowledge on this should weigh in further. My memory is very hazy. Might also be incorrect.

 

[Windjammer]

Oh bhai, I know Abbas “Mickey” Mirza personally. I know what he did. You just copy pasted from the article again. I was just questioning the semantics of deputed vs evaluated.

My dad and most probably @Quwa’s as well evaluated MPDRs in depth before acquisition. Doesn’t mean they were deputed to Siemens .

Now PAF pilots and engineering teams tgat spent 5+ years in Chengdu actually Colloborating on the JF17 project is what I will call deputation in this sense.

I have heard of the name Abbas Mirza but like you I don't know him personally hence I can only post what I read or whatever information is out there. The article does say that he was one of Three test pilots on the F-20.