Operation Azm-e-Istehkam | آپریشن عزم استحکام

[EternalMortal]

All Pakistanis want Islam in their life but our elite want us to become liberal and modern like the West, they don't believe in Allama Iqbal vision of a modern Islamic State, they want Secular Liberal LGBTQ state. The Afghan government knows this and so does the TTP. I understand people on PDF hate the mullahs but general Pakistani public don't follow the mullahs, they want a moderate Islamic state, Islam doesn't belong to the mullahs.

TTP ideology can be destroyed though implementation of real Islam, slowly their support will be finished as people will see them for what they are. Don't forget we funded these same people, trained them, called them mujahdeens. Today if they turned their guns on Pakistan then suddenly they are not mujahdeens?.

It will take us a few more generations to calm this situation down but with the Taliban in Afghanistan and TTP funding a different ideology, we will face a big opposition.

The Taliban are not all extremists, they have treaties with different groups, some are moderate sunni Muslims of Afghanistan but yes all follow the Pashtunwali code and think of Afghanistan as an independent state, Pakistan policies on the other hand are not independent, we allowed usa drone attacks on our own people, allowed usa agents and blackwater in Pakistan. Are they still here or gone? They must have formed big connections.

agreed 100%. our war with TTP is not a military one, it's ideological. the biggest reason why we've been unable to end it is b/c pakistan has an identity crisis & doesn't have a proper narrative to counter TTPs.

Insurgencies require political solutions. Mil ops & IBOs are only useful for gaining leverage & containing the insurgents but they are not going to solve the root problems that created the insurgency.

 

[hussain0216]

The issue is how will Pakistan finish ttp bases in Afghanistan, if they attack Afghanistan then we will have another enemy state, create hatred and a never ending militancy war with Afghanistan, Pakistan supported Taliban and aided them back to power so the only solution is a dialogue. The Afghan government and TTP want the border opened, free movement of people, removal of Pakistan army from borders so the ttp can rule like they have done for decades. In Pakistan we don't need a major military operation, our intelligence agencies should identify the terrorists and eliminate them through secret operations. Overall this situation will continue like how it is until the people in those regions come to mainstream which may take generations, when they accept the state writ and the state also should stop the elite exploitation which we all know will never happen.

This is why I said their is no solution to the Afghan problem

Their is only MANAGEMENT of the problem to hopefully limit the death and chaos the Afghans can cause

 

[PakAl]

Thank you, I did not know that. Wow, that was March 1951. The ink was barely dry.

Rawalpindi conspiracy - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Same old story, government removed due to security threats or Indian policy etc. It's shocking. Wasn't Liaqat Ali Khan part of Pakistan movement and close to Muhammad Ali Jinnah?, then again his sister Fatima Jinnah was called a traitor.

 

[PakAl]

Couldn’t agree more. Take the winds out of their sails by implementing actual islamic laws and get rid of the British influenced “blasphemy laws.”

The liberal elites have enormous support from the West and India. India will do whatever it takes to ensure no actual Islamic government takes hold as that would riled up their own Muslim population as well as the historical baggage of sustained Islamic invasions.

I’m shocked at the ethno nationalist here tbh. Either you withdraw from the occupied territory of KPK and Bstan, or start implement actual changes. Let’s be real, Bstan is being abused by the army to get rich. It’s colonialism. KPK has seen war because the f*ckers in charge want to continue to sow instability there to ensure compliance to the idea of “Pakistan.”

The Brits did a number left their only outpost in South Asian make sure no integration takes place amongst their former subjects. My point is I’m not pro Indian and don’t have any illusions of some unified South Asia as I truly despise the eastern rats, but see the sleazy disgusting pattern of behavior from ppl that are suppose to make sure Pakistan is strong leads me to believe that even the ruling class knows that their only job to follow orders from the people that left them in charge in the first place, and they do the bare minimum to ensure compliance to the foreign masters. That along with lining their pockets because they know they’re the brown viceroys put in place…

What is actually Islamic Law? Strict action against corruption, dacoits, mafias, accountability, protecting the weak, rule of law, human rights, women rights, animal rights, protecting our children, giving rights to minority, looking after the weak and poor. Will our rulers agree to this? A big NO. People talk about blasphemy laws and find faults but what about the innocents in jail due to fake cases, rapist walking free, rich and powerful untouchable.

Something we should look at and study, our political leadership during 1947 was mostly pro Pakistan and Pakistan movement but we're our security forces part of the movement, do they actually believe in Allama Iqbal vision of a modern Islamic welfare state? India has strong hindutva ideology and its untouchable but we're have none, we copied Saudi nationalist ideology in 1980s to get their funds and now going to secular western ideology, we are all over the place.

 

[PakAl]

agreed 100%. our war with TTP is not a military one, it's ideological. the biggest reason why we've been unable to end it is b/c pakistan has an identity crisis & doesn't have a proper narrative to counter TTPs.

Insurgencies require political solutions. Mil ops & IBOs are only useful for gaining leverage & containing the insurgents but they are not going to solve the root problems that created the insurgency.

I mentioned this over a decade ago, ttp and co follow an ideology, Pakistan needs to follow Allama Iqbal ideology of Independent Islamic Welfare State but instead our military is secular westernised, our elite are lgbtq ideology, our people are either normal people with no direction or certain section of society follows foreign extremist ideologies, the jahalat is another factor. Allama Iqbal had the best follow in Muhammad Ali Jinnah, and Muhammad Ali Jinnah followers Liaqat Ali Khan was not good enough, his sister was not good enough. What is the ideology of Pakistan powerful rulers?

 

[PakAl]

This is why I said their is no solution to the Afghan problem

Their is only MANAGEMENT of the problem to hopefully limit the death and chaos the Afghans can cause

We are screwed then, even if attacks reduce, after 6 months we could face a big attack on foreigners and we will be back to square one. Investors want security and protection of their investment.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

We are screwed then, even if attacks reduce, after 6 months we could face a big attack on foreigners and we will be back to square one. Investors want security and protection of their investment.

Dasu is the most cited attack by Chinese investors and workers.

 

[Lulldapull]

Still not sure if you are being satirical or cynical. In case you have forgotten, he was the first of the generals who introduced Pakistan to the joys of military coups. Your tragedy of 'hybrid regimes' owes to him.

1958 Pakistani military coup - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Oh bhai......we had no economy, no industry, 99% awaam was illiterate back then. Inna wudda dushman sitting to our east, just ready to practically walk right in, mocking us daily.

Kuchh mulk de waastay socho to buray

Kuchh karo to buray

Kuchh na karo to buray

I mean, we can't blame our army bhai. South Korean jharrnailon ne SK ko top 10 economy bana diya hae using a lot of sakhti. God forbid our army even tries a tenth of that effort every man n his dog starts non stop attacks. Ye saaray jerray Irani IRGC k jharrnailon ne jootay maar maar ker Iranio ko regional super power bana diya hae. Ye saaray sakht tareen/ hardcore jharrnail hain gay. What do you think? shia molvi are in power in Tehran? You know this right? Irani turani taraqiyaan kar re hain (parrosi musalmaan mulk).....saari awaam purrh likh gae hae, look at their economy thread here bro.......Hum betthay tamashay dekh re hain.

 

[hussain0216]

We are screwed then, even if attacks reduce, after 6 months we could face a big attack on foreigners and we will be back to square one. Investors want security and protection of their investment.

This is our situation, the people in these areas are jahils. They will kill polio workers, attack girls schools, won't obey laws or pay taxes.
If you arrest one, even for lawful reasons, the family or tribe might cause trouble

The best we can do is manage the situation and kill the worst of them

 

[PakAl]

This is our situation, the people in these areas are jahils. They will kill polio workers, attack girls schools, won't obey laws or pay taxes.
If you arrest one, even for lawful reasons, the family or tribe might cause trouble

The best we can do is manage the situation and kill the worst of them

We have around 5M population in tribal areas, plus the millions which cross the border yearly. It doesn't look easy to control the situation. These people have been living in their own ways for centuries, Pakistan direct control only took place when we sent the army around 2001 time, and then in 2022 made tribal areas part of KPK. It's natural it will take decades to incorporate these people in to mainstream. Not everyone is a trouble maker but they have alot of militants operations, also the smugglers, dacoits, mafias, extremists. All causing these problems.

Pakistan must bring the tribal elders and pro Pakistan militias on their side, bring investment to the region, build their houses, roads, hospitals, schools. They are promised but then our leadership goes back on their words.

Tribal elders laud Pakistan Army’s efforts in war against terror | The Express Tribune

Corps Commander Peshawar reiterates army's steadfast commitment to welfare of tribal communities

tribune.com.pk

Tribal elders, MNAs dissatisfied with uplift initiatives

Tell govt-convened that jirga tribesmen immediately need reconstruction of houses.

www.dawn.com

 

[Goenitz]

This is our situation, the people in these areas are jahils. They will kill polio workers, attack girls schools, won't obey laws or pay taxes.
If you arrest one, even for lawful reasons, the family or tribe might cause trouble

The best we can do is manage the situation and kill the worst of them

We have jahils here too


The rest of the things are due to lack of education. In fact, they were kept illiterate and on a high dose of religious and ethnic sentiment as it was needed.

The not paying tax part is due to the trust deficit with the centre, false entitlement (our resources) and weak writ of the govt.

 

[PakAl]

The operation name should have been. National Tribal Area Development Plan.
Build schools, colleges, roads, hospitals and houses for the tribal people who have suffered, Give the control to local police, abolish the Frontier Corps and Frontier constabulary and incorporate them in to KPK rangers, give them control over the border security management, create 50,000 special anti terrorist rangers wing and use them to deal with militants. Usa provided 750m over 5 years and Pakistan promised them 10 years of Development funds, use this money instead of looting.

600 educational institutions in tribal districts non-functional for a decade

Official holds security concerns, displacement of local population responsible for it

www.dawn.com

 

[PakAl]

We have jahils here too


The rest of the things are due to lack of education. In fact, they were kept illiterate and on a high dose of religious and ethnic sentiment as it was needed.

The not paying tax part is due to the trust deficit with the centre, false entitlement (our resources) and weak writ of the govt.

They have been independent ruled since the British rule, Pakistani laws did not apply until recently. So the first thing we do is charge them tax but they are already underdeveloped and most likely the tax will be eaten by our elite. Once the areas developed, our government can add tax. Regarding jahalt, we have them all over, Pakistan is ruled by dacoit mafias. Majority of the tribal area people are willing to cooperate with the army, millions left their houses for military operations, they did not cause problems but the violent militants are responsible, with the tribal elders support and pro Pakistan militias our army removed majority of terrorists from the area. The issue is how to completely eliminate them, that should be long term goal through education and development.

 

[Awwad]

All I want to know is what exactly is PTI plan to crush ttp other than military operation. Share that plan and if I find that solution workable then I would fully support that plan and oppose any military operation in kpk

You want to move & deploy regular army troops in your own country ?? You do only that when enemy or terror group is holding a territory. Just like it had became neccessary when TTP had held territory in the past. But now, they just do hit and run. They are not holding any territory. All you need is to de-politicize ISI and make it competent and put it on its real primary job. They need to infiltrate terror networks both in Paksitan and Afghanistan silently and destroy those networks. You do not need massive troops deployments.

You created a monster level problem when the first operations were done in Waziristan during Musharraf's tenure. Few 100 TTPs became 1000s because of collateral damage. You will do just that once again by using regular army.

Terrorism is by product of policies of Pakistan army during 80's and than early 2000's. Its totally dumb to put even slightest blame on PTI. Infact terrorism was its peak during 2004-2018 and terrorism is at its lowest from 2018 onwards. PTI came in power only in 2018. Only fools can accuse PTI of all the terror and bad policies which started it at first place from 2004 to 2018. KP police & CTD are always active against terrorists, see below link for details:

KP-CTD kills 124, arrests 322 terrorists in current so far

PESHAWAR: The Khyber Pakhtunkhwa (KP) Counter-Terrorism Department (CTD) claimed to have killed a total of 124 terrorists and arrested 322 in the first six months of the current year across the provin

www.pakistantoday.com.pk

TTP will be completely removed only if ISI is de-politicized and put back to its real job of intelligence & security of Pakistanis. As long as their priority & energies are against the largest political party they will never succeed. More competent people needs to be hired and they need to outsmart the enemy. More effective IBO's needs to be done. Most importantly, you need to enhance relations with Taliban. Earn their trust. How its possible that for 20 years ISPR kept crying that RAW & NDS is supporting TTP and giving them arms and money and now when RAW & NDS eventually left the Afghanistan, you made a hilarious U-turn and changed your goal post. Now 180 degree opposite group is in power in Afghanistan. If you couldn't cooperate and work with NDS, and you can't work with Taliban that means you can work with nobody. That means you are doing strategic blunder of trapping Pakistan in 2 front war situation for eternity. Pakistan cannot survive like that. Pakistan needs a friendly border at western sides for its own survival. That is only possible if you can earn trust of Taliban. There was no possibility of friendly border with Afghanistan when RAW & NDS were in AFghanistan supporting terror group. With Taliban you have the possibility because you gave them santuaries in Pakistan for 2 decades plus you had a wonderful peaceful era in the 90's. You already had great experience in the past. This sudden shift in Pakistan's policy was because of US new policy which Bajwa obliged with, all this regime change and new geo-political scenario was great for US and India but worst for Pakistan. US want India to contain & compete with China, they wanted Pakistan as puppet and harmless state for india and focus Pakistan's military towards Afghanistan. Bajwa was seriously a dumb General who got played. His successor, a politically motivated appointee, a retired general is continuing same policy.

 

[MasterChief]

This is our situation, the people in these areas are jahils. They will kill polio workers, attack girls schools, won't obey laws or pay taxes.
If you arrest one, even for lawful reasons, the family or tribe might cause trouble

The best we can do is manage the situation and kill the worst

Have you spent time in "these areas" and know any of these "jahils" kid?