Operation Ghazab Lil Haq (Pakistan - Afghanistan War)

[I*R*A]

These claims are very much ingrained not only at their decision making level but commoners as well.

I am not sure why you are so worried about these claims. Anyone claim anything but that does not mean they will get it.

Akhandbharat is confirm MAD (for this region and beyond), afghanistan the day they try something stupid, it will be dealt with. Modern empires cannot survive conquering new lands, thinking anyone can annex or occupy a foreign territory forever in these days is stupid.

iranians tried reviving Persia and see where it led to. Why do you insist on verbal claims based on some ancient civilization that is buried 80% underground, how does that help Pakistan and Pakistanis?

 

[Samurai]

This passiveness comes from the fact that our population has been conditioned to act as such. There is no desire or even attempt to give nation something to inspire for. Persians wants to revive their persian empire, Afghans wants loy Afghan, Indians dream of Akhand Bharat. There is a reason both Afghan and Indians mock us that there was no Pakistan before 1947, because we act docile with no counter claims. FKing Isreali army put greater Israel patches on their uniform, officially, for some mythical land that was promised to them 3000 years ago. what is Pakistani dream?

"This passiveness comes from the fact that our population has been conditioned to act as such."

And the root cause of this conditioning is that fact that joint establishment-elitist-feudalistic influence and control over the masses. Especially Pakistani "awam" living in rural areas are subservient and subjected to these feudal overlords who themselves are aligned with whatever the establishment decides. This has generally created a slave mindset among the avg. population and even those in the urban circles who think about the rights and enlightenment are rooted out and clamped down by the higher ups because that system sitting above is afraid of any new or rebellious thought process. Once you constrict that thought process and ensure masses are subservient and controlled through religious fervor, then you can't expect Pakistani people to think about greater Pakistan.... because we need to liberate ourselves first from inside before we think about greatness. This is all interconnected unfortunately.

 

[Taimoor]

"This passiveness comes from the fact that our population has been conditioned to act as such."

And the root cause of this conditioning is that fact that joint establishment-elitist-feudalistic influence and control over the masses. Especially Pakistani "awam" living in rural areas are subservient and subjected to these feudal overlords who themselves are aligned with whatever the establishment decides. This has generally created a slave mindset among the avg. population and even those in the urban circles who think about the rights and enlightenment are rooted out and clamped down by the higher ups because that system sitting above is afraid of any new or rebellious thought process. Once you constrict that thought process and ensure masses are subservient and controlled through religious fervor, then you can't expect Pakistani people to think about greater Pakistan.... because we need to liberate ourselves first from inside before we think about greatness. This is all interconnected unfortunately.

Thats what I am trying to explain to these Allams on this thread, yet the "messiah" lives rent free 24*7 in their upper chambers, any critcism of establishment and how they have degraded national thought process, is taken some sort of agenda pushed down to "cult" followers. Pathetic state of mind tbh.

 

[Taimoor]

I am not sure why you are so worried about these claims. Anyone claim anything but that does not mean they will get it.

Akhandbharat is confirm MAD (for this region and beyond), afghanistan the day they try something stupid, it will be dealt with. Modern empires cannot survive conquering new lands, thinking anyone can annex or occupy a foreign territory forever in these days is stupid.

iranians tried reviving Persia and see where it led to. Why do you insist on verbal claims based on some ancient civilization that is buried 80% underground, how does that help Pakistan and Pakistanis?

I am not worried , rather bemused by the lack of desire to achieve greatness. Conquest and greatness can be traced back throughout known human history. If you as Pakistani are immune to this, then it goes back to original argument how our nation is conditioned to behave in this way. Look at Israelis, screwing up whole region and beyond because they are working with laser focus on their mythical Greater Israel 3000 years ago, which will benefit them and them alone. This is happening right now, and you think its "stupid" in this day and age?

 

[Master Chief]

Is it difficult to appreciate common sense? Or you just want to argue for the sake of it, trying to come across as some sort of Aristotle? what I was implying? Both your neighbour claim YOUR territory because of the recent or mythical past. These claims are very much ingrained not only at their decision making level but commoners as well. You in turn have NOTHING to counter them because you been lazy and taking all the non sense from them without having your own claims, rather counter claims. You may not like this, but this is how real world works. Newton third law of motion. When we talk about IVC and Pakistan's territory based on that, we are basically talking about a much bigger Pakistan then what it is today, you are claiming both India and Afghan territory based on that. I used greater Pakistan, because its easier to understand, just like greater Isreal, or Akhand Bharat.... You dont like the name, call it Pax Pakistana, Industan?

You claim you hearing it first time, how old are you? Just want to understand the level of exposure and mental maturity I am dealing with.

As for your zero interest, you are no body, insignificant one. You interest or lack of, wont keep the hordes on both flanks having their wet dreams of dismembering you and creating their country in its original form as they preceive. Even Persians want to invoke their Persian empire. You are the only fool in this neighbour whose left sucking on your thumb.

So again, you are resorting to personal insults, which I assure you, you would not be doing in person. So why even entertain this immature behaviour online?

As for your actual "argument", Pakistan should do whatever it takes to obliterate the delusions of ANY neighbour who wishes to snatch Pakistani land in the name of their historical fantasies. At the same time, I am repeatedly stating that Pakistan is mature enough to NOT have any need to imitate such fantasies itself. Certainly, destroy anything that needs to be destroyed, and even occupy enemy land strategically if needed, to assure the continuation of our nation state, but why on earth do we need our own "Greater Pakistan mythology" to counter the mythologies of neighbours?

What will you do with this "Greater Pakistan" mythology when two generations from now, children raise their hand and ask why we have not yet realised this grandiose vision?

Again, I put it to you that this is puerile behaviour, which aims to emulate an enemy, rather than overcoming them through professionalism and superiority of our own doctrines.

Should we imitate Indian behaviour in all fields now? Would you like to assume the role of Bakshi and have a regular slot on our news channels?

I had not heard of this garbage until today so I must thank you for illuminating me. This "Greater Pakistan" ideology that you are leading the way with seems to be a distraction from real issues.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

This passiveness comes from the fact that our population has been conditioned to act as such. There is no desire or even attempt to give nation something to inspire for. Persians wants to revive their persian empire, Afghans wants loy Afghan, Indians dream of Akhand Bharat. There is a reason both Afghan and Indians mock us that there was no Pakistan before 1947, because we act docile with no counter claims. FKing Isreali army put greater Israel patches on their uniform, officially, for some mythical land that was promised to them 3000 years ago. what is Pakistani dream?

You are exactly right. Even some well meaning people in this thread can't see it that Pakistan is behaving like a lifeless carcass without direction or meaning, which is what makes it an easy victim to aggression and exploitation politically.

They don't understand the importance of historical identities, pride and ideologies.

Always on the defensive back foot. Meanwhile every one out there has clarity of mind, clear direction and goals. From Iranians to Israelis, Arabs to Turks, Afghans to Indians. Americans had manifest destiny.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

So again, you are resorting to personal insults, which I assure you, you would not be doing in person. So why even entertain this immature behaviour online?

As for your actual "argument", Pakistan should do whatever it takes to obliterate the delusions of ANY neighbour who wishes to snatch Pakistani land in the name of their historical fantasies. At the same time, I am repeatedly stating that Pakistan is mature enough to NOT have any need to imitate such fantasies itself. Certainly, destroy anything that needs to be destroyed, and even occupy enemy land strategically if needed, to assure the continuation of our nation state, but why on earth do we need our own "Greater Pakistan mythology" to counter the mythologies of neighbours?

What will you do with this "Greater Pakistan" mythology when two generations from now, children raise their hand and ask why we have not yet realised this grandiose vision?

Again, I put it to you that this is puerile behaviour, which aims to emulate an enemy, rather than overcoming them through professionalism and superiority of our own doctrines.

Should we imitate Indian behaviour in all fields now? Would you like to assume the role of Bakshi and have a regular slot on our news channels?

I had not heard of this garbage until today so I must thank you for illuminating me. This "Greater Pakistan" ideology that you are leading the way with seems to be a distraction from real issues.

Brother, it doesn't neccessarily have to mean Greater Pakistan specicifically.

What it means here is that a larger more distant goal or achievement that you want to attain tied to your historical identity and collective desire tied to strengthening oneself.

Think about this, everyone in the region has clarity of mind and thought in their political maneuvering because they have long term goals attached to their collective identity and pride.

The Turks base it on Ottoman historical pride and regional dominance, you have the Iranians, you had Americans and their manifest destiny, you have Chinese with East Asia and global superpower, Indians all the way to Indians and Israelis, to Afghans.

Their political maneuvering and clarity of mind is tied to their identity and pride.

What is Pakistan's goal beyond surving till the next day? What goals or achievements does it seek regionally tied to identity? If anything it seems confused, focused more on the next day. It's why its always on the back foot, defensive, and exploited politically.

It lacks meaning and purpose.

@Taimoor

 

[Taimoor]

So again, you are resorting to personal insults, which I assure you, you would not be doing in person. So why even entertain this immature behaviour online?

As for your actual "argument", Pakistan should do whatever it takes to obliterate the delusions of ANY neighbour who wishes to snatch Pakistani land in the name of their historical fantasies. At the same time, I am repeatedly stating that Pakistan is mature enough to NOT have any need to imitate such fantasies itself. Certainly, destroy anything that needs to be destroyed, and even occupy enemy land strategically if needed, to assure the continuation of our nation state, but why on earth do we need our own "Greater Pakistan mythology" to counter the mythologies of neighbours?

What will you do with this "Greater Pakistan" mythology when two generations from now, children raise their hand and ask why we have not yet realised this grandiose vision?

Again, I put it to you that this is puerile behaviour, which aims to emulate an enemy, rather than overcoming them through professionalism and superiority of our own doctrines.

Should we imitate Indian behaviour in all fields now? Would you like to assume the role of Bakshi and have a regular slot on our news channels?

I had not heard of this garbage until today so I must thank you for illuminating me. This "Greater Pakistan" ideology that you are leading the way with seems to be a distraction from real issues.

Sometimes have to be blunt, and I will be in your face if I have to.

You are not mimicking them, Its called tit for tat, heard of it before? Every move of your enemy, every capability, narratives and doctrines have to be countered. That is whole package of statecraft.

That is the most laughable argument you have made, worried about coming generations? Indians have been shouting their lungs out for Akhand Bharat since 47, they been doing pretty well and have kept their territory intact, as compared to us. Giving your people something to work for, to inspire for greatness, why such ideas make you lot jittery with certain cultist tendencies?

Superiority of your doctrines? and what are those as we speak right now, today, in this day and age?

 

[Master Chief]

Brother, it doesn't neccessarily have to mean Greater Pakistan specicifically.

What it means here is that a larger more distant goal or achievement that you want to attain tied to your historical identity and collective desire tied to strengthening oneself.

Think about this, everyone in the region has clarity of mind and thought in their political maneuvering because they have long term goals attached to their collective identity and pride.

The Turks base it on Ottoman historical pride and regional dominance, you have the Iranians, you had Americans and their manifest destiny, you have Chinese with East Asia and global superpower, Indians all the way to Indians and Israelis, to Afghans.

Their political maneuvering and clarity of mind is tied to their identity and pride.

What is Pakistan's goal beyond surving till the next day? What goals or achievements does it seek regionally tied to identity? If anything it seems confused, focused more on the next day. It's why its always on the back foot, defensive, and exploited politically.

It lacks meaning and purpose.

@Taimoor

Tell you what. Am happy to ruminate with you and @Taimoor on the concept of "Greater Pakistan" on a dedicated thread. I think we have derailed this one enough with this hypothetical conjecturism. It has little to no relevance with regards to current operations against Afghanistan.

 

[Toxic]

do you think our babus will allow this

Eh considering they have been regularly releasing airstrike footage I don't see why not

 

[Master Chief]

Sometimes have to be blunt, and I will be in your face if I have to.

You are not mimicking them, Its called tit for tat, heard of it before? Every move of your enemy, every capability, narratives and doctrines have to be countered. That is whole package of statecraft.

That is the most laughable argument you have made, worried about coming generations? Indians have been shouting their lungs out for Akhand Bharat since 47, they been doing pretty well and have kept their territory intact, as compared to us. Giving your people something to work for, to inspire for greatness, why such ideas make you lot jittery with certain cultist tendencies?

Superiority of your doctrines? and what are those as we speak right now, today, in this day and age?

Yes, you can certainly try such behaviour and such a tone to my face. Feel free.

Tit for tat is fine except when it makes you yourself look like a bigger tit than the enemy you have just been ridiculing.

God help us all if "Greater Pakistan" is uttered by our officials. Do you not think for one second that this would make you a laughing stock?

Happy to discuss these ideas from a purely philosophical angle on a dedicated thread.

Tag me if you open one.

 

[Taimoor]

Brother, it doesn't neccessarily have to mean Greater Pakistan specicifically.

What it means here is that a larger more distant goal or achievement that you want to attain tied to your historical identity and collective desire tied to strengthening oneself.

Think about this, everyone in the region has clarity of mind and thought in their political maneuvering because they have long term goals attached to their collective identity and pride.

The Turks base it on Ottoman historical pride and regional dominance, you have the Iranians, you had Americans and their manifest destiny, you have Chinese with East Asia and global superpower, Indians all the way to Indians and Israelis, to Afghans.

Their political maneuvering and clarity of mind is tied to their identity and pride.

What is Pakistan's goal beyond surving till the next day? What goals or achievements does it seek regionally tied to identity? If anything it seems confused, focused more on the next day. It's why its always on the back foot, defensive, and exploited politically.

It lacks meaning and purpose.

@Taimoor

Precisely, the clarity of mind, thanks for highlighting that. Everyone around us have it, except us. Who cares if goals and inspiration today seems far fetched, but there should be desire to achieve them. Even in our personal lives we like to set ourselves high goals, so why not as collective, as nation?

 

[ghazi52]

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[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]