Operation Ghazab Lil Haq (Pakistan - Afghanistan War)

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

Least insane take from a guy with ata turk as his pfp

Canadian

 

[Falcon26]

People went haywire last time I said the ISI is highly overrated intelligence organization which has failed to keep the Pakistani state insulated from the mess in Afghanistan. People claimed that the failure was a state wide rather than being attributable to one organization. But the ISI is part of the Pakistani military which is the de facto ruler of Pakistan. Pakistan’s political dysfunction is a function of the military’s gross political and governance interventions.

The fact that the ISI and the Pakistani military have persistently failed to hit senior TTP, ISIS & BLA targets in Afghanistan shows high organizational incompetence and dysfunction. Heck, the ISI and the Pakistani military even watched as one of the most vile TTP commanders Ehsanullah Ehsan escaped from their facilities.

This ongoing ‘operations’ is more of a political and PR stunt than any real military attempt to solve the TTP and BLA question. It has achieved exactly zero net impact. No senior TTP or BLA leaders killed or apprehended. No discernible drop in terror tempo. No nothing. It’s a total farce. For context, compare and contrast Israel’s operation in Iran and India’s operation in khashmir. India especially not only eliminated militant activities but is actively exporting militancy to Pakistan through BLA, TTP and Afghan Taliban.

But yes: the ISI is lumber one intelligence agency in the world

 

[hasssanali8998]

No discernible drop in terror tempo

there was after gazhab retards stopped it and it went back

 

[Falgrine]

I can assure you. They will cry in sync. All of them. They will make accusations. BBC, CNN, European mainstream media, Indians and the entire bandwagon. All the Western sponsored human rights organisations will point fingers. The UN will demand an inquiry.

We should show them a middle finger and pounce the Afghans. There should be severe punishment and retribution. The entire world on one side and Pakistan on the other. Pakistan's security is of utmost important. The entire world comes after that.

We know who is really the mastermind of these attacks. They don't have the balls to face us.

Afghanistan should be Paks Lebanon.
State should do what is necessary not what looks good. FFS

 

[Distant_Observer]

Afghanistan should be Paks Lebanon.
State should do what is necessary not what looks good. FFS

Safeguarding Pakistani lives should be the priority.

 

[Oscar]

People went haywire last time I said the ISI is highly overrated intelligence organization which has failed to keep the Pakistani state insulated from the mess in Afghanistan. People claimed that the failure was a state wide rather than being attributable to one organization. But the ISI is part of the Pakistani military which is the de facto ruler of Pakistan. Pakistan’s political dysfunction is a function of the military’s gross political and governance interventions.

The fact that the ISI and the Pakistani military have persistently failed to hit senior TTP, ISIS & BLA targets in Afghanistan shows high organizational incompetence and dysfunction. Heck, the ISI and the Pakistani military even watched as one of the most vile TTP commanders Ehsanullah Ehsan escaped from their facilities.

This ongoing ‘operations’ is more of a political and PR stunt than any real military attempt to solve the TTP and BLA question. It has achieved exactly zero net impact. No senior TTP or BLA leaders killed or apprehended. No discernible drop in terror tempo. No nothing. It’s a total farce. For context, compare and contrast Israel’s operation in Iran and India’s operation in khashmir. India especially not only eliminated militant activities but is actively exporting militancy to Pakistan through BLA, TTP and Afghan Taliban.

But yes: the ISI is lumber one intelligence agency in the world

Who made that claim and why?

The ISI has mostly built up notoriety for being "involved" in a lot of things and overreach - overreach does not translate to competence and more importantly does not mean it always has the BEST resources available to it.
At the same time, you are using your tainted ideas of failure to disregard success the agency has had which may or may not be available to public due to the nature of operations.

The ISI is highly capable in covert action, proxy warfare, and internal security operations, able to manage complex networks of clients and militants over decades. EVERY agency in the world along with intelligence experts recognize it.

However, what you are terming under pointless demeaning terms is a case of enduring issues that hamper Pakistanis in working environments in general:
Competing priorities that cannibalize resources and operational effectiveness
Competing bosses/chains of command
Politicization, dual agendas, and lack of civilian oversight

The result is where you have success that would blow your mind in ways - and then broader failures because many of these successes cannot be made cohesive due to the overall structure of Pakistani establishment leadership.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

The biggest problem in Pakistan right now isn't military capacity but rather mentality/ideology. Then economy after that.

Look at Pakistani politicians, they are all haram khor parasites that see Pakistan not as their country to nurture and develop along with their citizens, but to extract and abuse for personal benefit. FEUDALISM.

And the military itself is dealing with its own mental complexes and is filled with boomers of an old-mentality. It possesses no assertive form of nationalism, that can discard international rules and constraints being imposed to shrewdly pursue Pakistan's national interests at all costs. They are too submissive and anxious to conform to rules set by others.

Why? Because they lack a proper nationalist ideology to motivate and bring out that shrewd aggressive mentality. Carry old colonial complexes.

Afghanistan, India, Iran, China, all have it. Pakistan is a club of confused parasitic boomers instead of nationalists that want to build & develop a nation that sees their citizens as equals.

That's the root cause of its failure down to everything, including not being able to decisively confront TTP, BLA, Afghanistan.

 

[ACE OF HEARTS]

Perhaps action across the border should be taken, immediately when hostilities in the middle east rise / bombardment ensues.

So that the world media is more focused elsewhere, and that gives us a little advantage, for a small amount of time.

So it needs to be swift, accurate, lethal, targeted and on time, not waiting for approvals from above ranks.

It must be kept in mind that the middle east conflict might will continue into the next year and ground invasion might happen.

So, Pakistan must finish the job as soon as possible.

 

[RealNapster]

Everyone in KPK which i met is tired of this TTP terroism no one in their right mind there supports it still army fanbois will tell you the problem is the people of KPK and not the incompetence and lack of seriousness of Pak Army with tackling this problem only in Balochistan the local baloch give cover to the BLA

It helps them get their mental orgasm. Nobody will ask for regime change in GHQ as it failed to properly manage border and its policies of good taliban bad taliban failed.

The reason some people may feel sympathetic about some factions of talibans in KP was because YOU TOLD THEM THEY ARE GOOD TALIBAN.

@Distant_Observer

 

[hussain0216]

You've got to think bigger picture

When the USSR turned up in Afghanistan, Pakistan was central in taking down a superpower and kicking it out of the region


When the USA, NATO started to become a strategic threat to Pakistani interests, Pakistan was central in taking down a superpower a d kicking it out of the region

This including collapsing the Afghan Republic and destroying Indian plans that they had built up for two decades


All of our conflicts of late with India has ended in Indian humiliation


Pakistan has diligently attempted to expand it's indigenous military capabilities and built up powerful alliances
With China the manufacturing engine of the world and the future superpower

With Turkey and the Turkic world

With Multiple Arab states including defence alliances

And now even with Iran, where Pakistan is central in defending Iran and ensuring the Zionists don't get their way

And this will continue to expand, where Pakistan alongside multiple states will emerge as part of a wider alliance that seeks to protect the Muslim world and our region



The Afghans are a weak point, because those haramis share ethnic kinship with a part of our population
And for all we have done for them they are intent on causing chaos within our country

Afghanistan is a dark hole,
Identifying targets in a large state is difficult
Pakistan hoped after the collapse of the Afghan republic, the Afghans would see sense in trade and peace

But afghans are human scum

Pakistans didn't want to do this, but now has little option

The strikes are not the real weapon

Just like in the Iran conflict, the real weapon is the economic fallout and hardship that results from the ongoing conflict for the enemy



So Pakistans objective is to punish the Afghans by
Remove millions of afghans from Pakistani soil

Seal the border for trade

Stop Afghan travel into Pakistan and use of ports and territory

This is ALREADY having a MASSIVE negative effect on the Afghan people and economic poverty and hardship is sky high

Afghans are selling their daughter's to buy food for the remaining lannats


Pakistan is squeezing the Afghans hard

Bombing alone can be problematic in a ethnocentric region


So Pakistan understands it NEEDS the Afghans themselves to choose a different path

They tried honey to entice the Afghans using trade, a open borders scholarships, port access etc
Hoping the Afghans would behave because they are so dependent on Pakistan

But like I said Afghans are verminous scum

So now they are going hard, knowing the Afghans are suffering and require Pakistans help, borders and trade



That's the plan and IT WILL WORK(eventually)


In the meantime, the security plan is try to stop every attack
Use IBOs to target any tangos
Increased punishment and targets hit inside Afghanistan for terrorism in Pakistan



It's the best Pakistan can do in a volatile region with a generally thick as shit emotional population

 

[iron shrapnel]

Everyone in KPK which i met is tired of this TTP terroism no one in their right mind there supports it still army fanbois will tell you the problem is the people of KPK and not the incompetence and lack of seriousness of Pak Army with tackling this problem only in Balochistan the local baloch give cover to the BLA

Tired is not synonymous with support of Army there's a lot of differences there... People are afraid by both the TTP and Large scale military operations... Pakistan at the current point can't start a large scale operation due to lack of local support and the capital required for the rehabilitation of these people... Moreover political manoeuvering by some parties is being done in a way that it is confusing local populace further as FC and KPK police ( Both predominantly Pashtun ) are being hunted down... Both are fund hungry and also require fresh manpower replenishment... Things can be fast forwarded through ranger deployment ( which was considered ) but again local flare up is an issue...

 

[RealNapster]

Pakistan at the current point can't start a large scale operation due to lack of local support and the capital required for the rehabilitation of these people...

Maybe instead of starting large scale operation # 576, this time we just put more focus on the border part of the equation.

 

[iron shrapnel]

Maybe instead of starting large scale operation # 576, this time we just put more focus on the border part of the equation.

View attachment 203689

These aren't the plains of Punjab or Sindh that are simple to fence.. Moreover when there is high motivation from both sides to cross it then it becomes even more difficult to manage... There are many tunnel networks and gorges that are almost impossible to observe effectively... Both used by smugglers and Taliban alike.... Smugglers have to be entertained to keep local support and consequently same people have to keep other side happy as well... & Like it or not Taliban do enjoy enough local support ( through blackmail, marriages, tribal affinities & straight out racism ) to cause the mayhem that they are...
There are many dynamics that have to be kept in mind... You have to keep in mind that these are people who have lived off the trade between Pak and Afgh... You have to gradually help and facilitate them into their new reality.. The Taliban will try their best to stop you... So that's that...

 

[Falcon26]

Who made that claim and why?

The ISI has mostly built up notoriety for being "involved" in a lot of things and overreach - overreach does not translate to competence and more importantly does not mean it always has the BEST resources available to it.
At the same time, you are using your tainted ideas of failure to disregard success the agency has had which may or may not be available to public due to the nature of operations.

The ISI is highly capable in covert action, proxy warfare, and internal security operations, able to manage complex networks of clients and militants over decades. EVERY agency in the world along with intelligence experts recognize it.

However, what you are terming under pointless demeaning terms is a case of enduring issues that hamper Pakistanis in working environments in general:
Competing priorities that cannibalize resources and operational effectiveness
Competing bosses/chains of command
Politicization, dual agendas, and lack of civilian oversight

The result is where you have success that would blow your mind in ways - and then broader failures because many of these successes cannot be made cohesive due to the overall structure of Pakistani establishment leadership.

I am not privy to any classified information but as long as we don’t see TTP/BLA HVT being eliminated or brought to justice, it will be hard to accept the ISI & the Pakistani military it reports to, are performing well against these threats. The uptick in terror over the past few years is the clearest indication that things are going well. Certainly, senior TTP commanders escaping from secure military facilities doesn’t give good image of the ISI or the military.

 

[White Privilege]

It is surprising to see so little update since last night and the fact that such event is being under discussed here on the forum.