Opinion: India Pakistan near conflict - Escalation management non-existent

[Oscar]

There is no end to "Holier Than Thou"isms - on both sides of the border. The sooner both parties realize (and I think the ones in charge do), the better.

Whatever one may claim, there is an inherent benefit to PA to keep the fires burning (they get disproportionate share of power, assets, budget). Similarly, hard right wingers in India have an inherent benefit to keep the issue simmering.

The only solution is when some outlier in PA on Pakistani side thinks of greater good of Pakistani people. In India, politicians from both sides of the aisle (Vajapayee, Manmohan and now Modi) have tried their best. Same can't be said about Pakistani side

Keeping the fires burning now also works for Modi and co. Has also worked for hawks prior to them.

Demonizing PA consistently only demonstrates your lack of understanding of ground realities.

 

[arsalan345]

This is something which we can't stop. emotional people exists on both sides. i am sure there will be a nuclear war. under bjp leadership, india is on a self destructing path. modi says he isn't scared of nuclear blackmail. i think he knows nothing about nuclear weapons. illiterate party is running india and that is a very big problem for pakistan. no mechanism exist to warn each other. only talk is dgmo level talk.

It feels more like that india is preparing for a nuclear war. their think tanks push the government to protect civilians. that's why 10 year plan of modi to protect civilians with somr kind of iron dome or shields lol. we have seen hypersonic missiles penetrating during iran israel and pak india war. point is no shield or protection can save you from a nuclear missile. it can only be destroyed during it's initial phase or mid trajectory. if it comes closer to target, it would be almost impossible to target it because of the speed from which it travels.

interception is very hard and risky. i am sure there will be armageddon. China, United states, both knows, even russia knows. India and pak can't exist together. It's not possible now.

population on both sides is huge specially india. one nuclear missile on delhi will kill millions. radioactivity, skin diseases. same with pakistan. nuclear missiles should be last option.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

This is something which we can't stop. emotional people exists on both sides. i am sure there will be a nuclear war. under bjp leadership, india is on a self destructing path. modi says he isn't scared of nuclear blackmail. i think he knows nothing about nuclear weapons. illiterate party is running india and that is a very big problem for pakistan. no mechanism exist to warn each other. only talk is dgmo level talk.

It feels more like that india is preparing for a nuclear war. their think tanks push the government to protect civilians. that's why 10 year plan of modi to protect civilians with somr kind of iron dome or shields lol. we have seen hypersonic missiles penetrating during iran israel and pak india war. point is no shield or protection can save you from a nuclear missile. it can only be destroyed during it's initial phase or mid trajectory. if it comes closer to target, it would be almost impossible to target it because of the speed from which it travels.

interception is very hard and risky. i am sure there will be armageddon. China, United states, both knows, even russia knows. India and pak can't exist together. It's not possible now.

population on both sides is huge specially india. one nuclear missile on delhi will kill millions. radioactivity, skin diseases. same with pakistan. nuclear missiles should be last option.

Pakistanis are NOT as emotional as indians nor are Pakistanis genocidal like indians are. The vast majority of Pakistanis DO NOT call for the genocide of all iindians or for india to be wiped of the face of the eearth. The vast majority of indians including their politicians DO call for the entire Pakistani people and nation to be annihilated.

 

[RajaBaja]

IMO the crux of the matter is the PAF grounded the IAF even without crossing the border. Imagine if they'd crossed the border! It'd have been the end of the Bharati conventional deterrence! No wonder the Pentagon has lost all hope on them......

After destruction of S-400, India was wide open for us to go deep into. It's strategic and missiles defense air cover was lost that's why they called for a ceasefire. In this short war, we had so many opportunities where 7-0 could've been 20-0 or even more. But we showed maturity as that level of deep strikes and damage would've resulted in touching the nuke threshold very quickly by India.

That's also why the first thing they realized and did, was a plan to deploy air cover by S-400 in three tiers. The following image shows what they had and what we took out, leaving their military entirely vulnerable to large attacks.

 

[Dalit]

I've even given you reference to US congress yet you didn't read it. If you just want to say "Jaishiree Hindustan", then I can't discuss further with you because instead of reading on proofs as legit as the US congress's own site, you continue to say "Nothing Happened" and "India didn't do it".

Below is a proof of Indian alliance with the US starting from Clinton's time. Hear it from an Indian! No further discussions with you. Change your flags!

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Change your flags already.

@Fatman17 @Waz Flag check please?

Fareed Zakaria shedding Indian crocodile tears.

 

[RajaBaja]

Chinese FM has made some significant statements with Ishaq Dar. It's clear that China wants three things right now:

1) Kick off CPEC. Message delivered to Afghanistan to join, end support for terrorism fractions, or be left behind.

2) Message given to India. If now it wants to "look east" for it's economic trade and growth, it will have to integrate itself with the Chinese world map. Meaning, make peace with Pakistan and other nations. Join BRI and CPEC projects. Stop all war and other escalations and start negotiating issues. China doesn't believe in wars because they are counter to productive growth.

No Rare Earth elements will be traded with India. India will first have to show commitment that it really wants to be a part of the Chinese world system.

3) They are waiting for Shehbaz Shariff's trip to China to inaugurate the CPEC Phase I and talk about expansion of the Phase II currently under built to Iran and other nations via Iran.

 

[Dalit]

Chinese FM has made some significant statements with Ishaq Dar. It's clear that China wants three things right now:

1) Kick off CPEC. Message delivered to Afghanistan to join, end support for terrorism fractions, or be left behind.

2) Message given to India. If now it wants to "look east" for it's economic trade and growth, it will have to integrate itself with the Chinese world map. Meaning, make peace with Pakistan and other nations. Join BRI and CPEC projects. Stop all war and other escalations and start negotiating issues. China doesn't believe in wars because they are counter to productive growth.

No Rare Earth elements will be traded with India. India will first have to show commitment that it really wants to be a part of the Chinese world system.

3) They are waiting for Shehbaz Shariff's trip to China to inaugurate the CPEC Phase I and talk about expansion of the Phase II currently under built to Iran and other nations via Iran.

India is playing duplicitous games. Don't be surprised if India switches sides again. India isn't sincere, but just buying time. Trying to blackmail Trump by supposedly allying itself with Russia and China. We know who pays the bills and where the money is generated. In the end, Modi will crawl back on his knees to its master.

 

[RajaBaja]

This is something which we can't stop. emotional people exists on both sides. i am sure there will be a nuclear war. under bjp leadership, india is on a self destructing path. modi says he isn't scared of nuclear blackmail. i think he knows nothing about nuclear weapons. illiterate party is running india and that is a very big problem for pakistan. no mechanism exist to warn each other. only talk is dgmo level talk.

It feels more like that india is preparing for a nuclear war. their think tanks push the government to protect civilians. that's why 10 year plan of modi to protect civilians with somr kind of iron dome or shields lol. we have seen hypersonic missiles penetrating during iran israel and pak india war. point is no shield or protection can save you from a nuclear missile. it can only be destroyed during it's initial phase or mid trajectory. if it comes closer to target, it would be almost impossible to target it because of the speed from which it travels.

interception is very hard and risky. i am sure there will be armageddon. China, United states, both knows, even russia knows. India and pak can't exist together. It's not possible now.

population on both sides is huge specially india. one nuclear missile on delhi will kill millions. radioactivity, skin diseases. same with pakistan. nuclear missiles should be last option.

Welcome to a first pre-view of the Indian "Sudharshan Chakkar" (Indian iron dome)! A 3 tier redundant missile defense network trying to cover 60-70% of Pakistani airspace. Also, making sure that if we take out 1,2,5 S-400 systems, it won't matter because it will be layer after layer and these S-400 and S-500 layers will also be backed by their LR-SAMS and other SAM systems. So it's pretty complicated and will definitely cause difficulties for Pakistan to use missiles and jets easily against India. I'm sure with time, we'll find a crack to it.

They think if they can block 60-70% missiles from Pakistan's side, they can eliminate the concept of a full fledge nuke war and that whatever few missiles do go through, will cause minimal damage that will be treated as "cost of war" by losing a few cities around the border as deep strike will become very difficult with 5 rings of SAMS ready to take out every single missile fired.

We'll now devise our own strategy to counter it. We have a year or two, before this design goes from concept, to be built.

 

[r3alist]

Chinese FM has made some significant statements with Ishaq Dar. It's clear that China wants three things right now:

1) Kick off CPEC. Message delivered to Afghanistan to join, end support for terrorism fractions, or be left behind.

2) Message given to India. If now it wants to "look east" for it's economic trade and growth, it will have to integrate itself with the Chinese world map. Meaning, make peace with Pakistan and other nations. Join BRI and CPEC projects. Stop all war and other escalations and start negotiating issues. China doesn't believe in wars because they are counter to productive growth.

No Rare Earth elements will be traded with India. India will first have to show commitment that it really wants to be a part of the Chinese world system.

3) They are waiting for Shehbaz Shariff's trip to China to inaugurate the CPEC Phase I and talk about expansion of the Phase II currently under built to Iran and other nations via Iran.

India needs USA for its development.
India needs China for its development



Both can continue to develop without India



India is left wandering why its policy never works

 

[RajaBaja]

India needs USA for its development.
India needs China for its development



Both can continue to develop without India



India is left wandering why its policy never works

You made some critical points. These points above are WHY India can never be a super power. By default, a super power is a nation that can be engaged with one or more conflicts, and yet, continue on with normal economic activity to fund the war/s. India can't do that. Uncle Sam lifted support, India will see the worst recession within a month. Same goes with China.

Ideally, I know Indian like to sing and dance about "super duper power" status, it way too early, They have 400 million people under poverty line. Don't have an independent economy, don't build own weapons and will be dependent for the next 20 years. So may be they should've started the "big country" syndrome after 2045 when Tejas and other projects would be completed.

You can't be holding people's hands to walk, yet tell others you are a big guy and can fight big wars. They'll laugh at you.............like now.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

India needs USA for its development.
India needs China for its development



Both can continue to develop without India



India is left wandering why its policy never works

Let's be clear about a certain reality. indians RESENT the fact that they will need the help of ANY non-white country for development. They hate and loathe the idea. They DESPERATELY want to get back into the good books of america and the west.

The indians have this morbid belief whereby they worship and venerate the white european races and feel that indians are superior to ALL other non-whites.

 

[r3alist]

Let's be clear about a certain reality. indians RESENT the fact that they will need the help of ANY non-white country for development. They hate and loathe the idea. They DESPERATELY want to get back into the good books of america and the west.

The indians have this morbid belief whereby they worship and venerate the white european races and feel that indians are superior to ALL other non-whites.

I agree with you here, even in the way you phrase the issue.


Even if I was well disposed to India as a Western strategist, I would be thinking what's the utility of India if they can switch up so easily

This is not bad American strategy, this is good American strategy

Because this way you can observe India come to a limit with china, and then have to grovel back to the west with less bargaining power

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

India is playing duplicitous games. Don't be surprised if India switches sides again. India isn't sincere, but just buying time. Trying to blackmail Trump by supposedly allying itself with Russia and China. We know who pays the bills and where the money is generated. In the end, Modi will crawl back on his knees to its master.

This!!!!!!...............indians might participate in BRICS and SCO but will switch sides to america and the west in an instance if they are given the chance. indians are desperate to be accepted and become a part of the west and america.

 

[r3alist]

You made some critical points. These points above are WHY India can never be a super power. By default, a super power is a nation that can be engaged with one or more conflicts, and yet, continue on with normal economic activity to fund the war/s. India can't do that. Uncle Sam lifted support, India will see the worst recession within a month. Same goes with China.

Ideally, I know Indian like to sing and dance about "super duper power" status, it way too early, They have 400 million people under poverty line. Don't have an independent economy, don't build own weapons and will be dependent for the next 20 years. So may be they should've started the "big country" syndrome after 2045 when Tejas and other projects would be completed.

You can't be holding people's hands to walk, yet tell others you are a big guy and can fight big wars. They'll laugh at you.............like now.

I am hearing Indian commentators on TV talking about how necessary China is for their development, and china India have a longstanding strategic relationship



Strategic relationship


Indian posters here have even started talking about China trusting India more, as usual trying to create a wedge, they should listen to the foreign ministers latest statement in Pakistan

 

[RajaBaja]

Let's be clear about a certain reality. indians RESENT the fact that they will need the help of ANY non-white country for development. They hate and loathe the idea. They DESPERATELY want to get back into the good books of america and the west.

The indians have this morbid belief whereby they worship and venerate the white european races and feel that indians are superior to ALL other non-whites.

There is no doubt about it. America runs the entire globe's economy. It's a massive country where every nation sends products to. Indians had it very easy, getting billions of dollars annually, millions of high paying jobs, total control including illegal over the entire IT spectrum, kicking others out, only soliciting jobs to their people in the US and in India, etc. They can't get that cake from anywhere else.

But the real truth is, the Americans have learned also that the Indians took them for a 30 year ride, resulting in $3-4 trillion out of their economy. So I doubt the Sugar train will still run to India like it used to.