PA MLRS, Self Propelled and towed artillery [BM-11, Fatah-I GMLRS, Fatah-II] - News, Updates & Discussions

JamD said:
There is no mention of nuclear in the press release. No mention of nuclear in Fatah-1 either, as far as I recall. I think Fatah series are supposed to have a conventional role. Furthermore, the final clip of hitting near the flag, you don't need (and need to show) that kind of accuracy for a nuclear weapon, albeit tactical.

With that context, I would repeat my question: What can you hit that is maybe 10 targets, which is worth expending 10 Fatah-II's on? Would have to be really high-value, not covered by S-400. I would imagine that an integrated air-defense system would have no trouble shooting down Fatahs. Maybe take out an AWACs on the ground or something - I don't know.
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Nasr also has been seen hitting a bull's eye.
So, it doesn't maneuver at all? Simple ballistic trajectory? No GPS, INS? Are those just stabilizing fins? For ground radars, I think it should have cluster munitions or incendiary spheres like ATACM.
 
Goenitz said:
Nasr also has been seen hitting a bull's eye.
So, it doesn't maneuver at all? Simple ballistic trajectory? No GPS, INS? Are those just stabilizing fins? For ground radars, I think it should have cluster munitions or incendiary spheres like ATACM.
Click to expand...
en.m.wikipedia.org

LORA (missile) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org
It could be like the israeli missile Lora.
 
JamD said:
There is no mention of nuclear in the press release. No mention of nuclear in Fatah-1 either, as far as I recall. I think Fatah series are supposed to have a conventional role. Furthermore, the final clip of hitting near the flag, you don't need (and need to show) that kind of accuracy for a nuclear weapon, albeit tactical.

With that context, I would repeat my question: What can you hit that is maybe 10 targets, which is worth expending 10 Fatah-II's on? Would have to be really high-value, not covered by S-400. I would imagine that an integrated air-defense system would have no trouble shooting down Fatahs. Maybe take out an AWACs on the ground or something - I don't know.
Click to expand...
Dead missions, imagine PAF and PA cordinating a deadly attack on S400, EW, glide bombs and cruise missile and Fatah's headed towards S400 it will nightmare for any AD commander.
 
JamD said:
There is no mention of nuclear in the press release. No mention of nuclear in Fatah-1 either, as far as I recall. I think Fatah series are supposed to have a conventional role. Furthermore, the final clip of hitting near the flag, you don't need (and need to show) that kind of accuracy for a nuclear weapon, albeit tactical.

With that context, I would repeat my question: What can you hit that is maybe 10 targets, which is worth expending 10 Fatah-II's on? Would have to be really high-value, not covered by S-400. I would imagine that an integrated air-defense system would have no trouble shooting down Fatahs. Maybe take out an AWACs on the ground or something - I don't know.
Click to expand...
I would assume cluster munitions or an airburst warhead would cause damage on a wider scale.
Against bridges, ammo dumps, railway junctions and other stationary targets, having pinpoint accuracy would be very useful in disrupting IAs logistics.
I have a feeling PAF will be left to its own devices to figure out how to deal with S-400, and army will only look after it's own targeting priorities.
The other issue is, you would need x number of these systems deployed as there won't be any production activity during the conflict as all manufacturing facilities would be targeted by India early on so I see limited use of these systems and only against high impact targets.
 
Goenitz said:
Nasr also has been seen hitting a bull's eye.
So, it doesn't maneuver at all? Simple ballistic trajectory? No GPS, INS? Are those just stabilizing fins? For ground radars, I think it should have cluster munitions or incendiary spheres like ATACM.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry if what I said made you think that Nasr isn't maneuvering. It very clearly has movable fins and it would be stupid not to maneuver.


My point was about nuclear weapons not needing to hit pin point targets and conventional warheads needing very much to. Also, I pointed out further evidence in the shape of ISPR press releases about the weapon systems.

GriffinsRule said:
I would assume cluster munitions or an airburst warhead would cause damage on a wider scale.
Against bridges, ammo dumps, railway junctions and other stationary targets, having pinpoint accuracy would be very useful in disrupting IAs logistics.
I have a feeling PAF will be left to its own devices to figure out how to deal with S-400, and army will only look after it's own targeting priorities.
The other issue is, you would need x number of these systems deployed as there won't be any production activity during the conflict as all manufacturing facilities would be targeted by India early on so I see limited use of these systems and only against high impact targets.
Click to expand...
Cluster munitions are only good for soft targets and not sure how high value they can be.

However, bridges are a great target.
 
A reliable tactical precision strike missile and some good drone inventory in the hands of PA will free up PAF from tactical support missions to some extent.
Air Defense Systems are not always moving, especially Long Range Air Defense Systems like S-400 & Barak-8 safeguarding enemy's supply Chains need to be taken out with Pin Point accuracy.
Fatah-2 alone may not be enough but it adds up our options to tackle these threats.

Now we can launch a 2-dimensional attack on enemy.
Babar low observable option
Fatah-2 observable but fast
 
JamD said:
There is no mention of nuclear in the press release.
Click to expand...
Exactly my reading is that "FATAH Weapon system/series" will eventually replace the NASR missiles and it is the conventional response for the same roles as Nasr system minus tactical nuclear capability.

As we know Nasr was an immediate reaction and had its ,limitations both in terms of range and role (being nuclear capable) If we recall Indian and international community used to raise the questions of tactical nuclear role of Nasr missiles with just 70 KM range, but with Fatah weapon system bot limitations are now addressed.

JamD said:
What can you hit that is maybe 10 targets, which is worth expending 10 Fatah-II's on?
Click to expand...
Now specifically to your question we can say that with the stated range of 400 KM now all the defence and economic centers of Indian states of

- Gujrat
- Rajasthan
- Haryana
- Punjab
- Himachal Pardesh
- Jammu & Kashmir and
- Ladhak
are under reach which mean flame of wars could be reached there as well.

Just as a side note I would like to remind the Brahmos Incident in which a Brahmos missile was "unintentionally launched" from Sirsa District in Haryana, India and landed in Pakistan, I hope this is a good example to clear the possible use of the 400 KM range of this system.
 
Mouth Watering Conflict - Potential Deployment against Layered Defense including S-400 by Pakistan

"Fatah-II tested recently has been branded by m,any experts different to Fatah-2 GMRLS GIDS has road maped. Its a more Thicker Weapon say 400 mm diameter fired from Twin Canister with a different trajectory as picked up from Test Video evidences.

Nevertheless Fatah -II SSM forms a cog in Pakistan's arsenal - It is only part of the Anti-dode series for pushing back Indian Air Defense Prized Asset deeper into won territory


1703861733933.png

- Raad ALCM JF-17
- CM-400 AKG high-speed air-to-ground missile
- Salvo of Kemankes KAGEM V3 by UAVs under EW Cover
- Aerial EW Assets
- Passive IR Anti Radiation Air Launched Missiles J-10C
- Loitering Munition attack
- Fatah -II SSM

No System is Silver Bullet or Non penetrable - See Ukraine & Russia. India might “use the system more often to defend high-value targets or critical national infrastructure from air attack, rather than forward-deploy to hamper the Pakistani Air Force’s use of its own airspace [thereby] putting the systems at greater risk of attack.”

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Pakistan Air Force Showcases Chinese-Equipped Strategy to Counter India’s S-400 in Major Exercise

The Pakistan Air Force released footage of the "Indus Shield-2023" exercise. In the exercise scenario, the J-10CE fighter provided cover for the JF-17C "Thunder 3" fighter as they suppressed India's S-400 anti-aircraft missile system, using high-speed air-to-ground missiles sourced from China...
www.china-arms.com www.china-arms.com
 
Last edited:
CSAW said:
Mouth Watering Conflict - Potential Deployment against Layered Defense including S-400 by Pakistan

"Fatah-II tested recently has been branded by m,any experts different to Fatah-2 GMRLS GIDS has road maped. Its a more Thicker Weapon say 400 mm diameter fired from Twin Canister with a different trajectory as picked up from Test Video evidences.

Nevertheless Fatah -II SSM forms a cog in Pakistan's arsenal - It is only part of the Anti-dode series for pushing back Indian Air Defense Prized Asset deeper into won territory


View attachment 5250

- Raad ALCM JF-17
- CM-400 AKG high-speed air-to-ground missile
- Salvo of Kemankes KAGEM V3 by UAVs under EW Cover
- Aerial EW Assets
- Passive IR Anti Radiation Air Launched Missiles J-10C
- Loitering Munition attack
- Fatah -II SSM

No System is Silver Bullet or Non penetrable - See Ukraine & Russia. India might “use the system more often to defend high-value targets or critical national infrastructure from air attack, rather than forward-deploy to hamper the Pakistani Air Force’s use of its own airspace [thereby] putting the systems at greater risk of attack.”

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.



Pakistan Air Force Showcases Chinese-Equipped Strategy to Counter India’s S-400 in Major Exercise

The Pakistan Air Force released footage of the "Indus Shield-2023" exercise. In the exercise scenario, the J-10CE fighter provided cover for the JF-17C "Thunder 3" fighter as they suppressed India's S-400 anti-aircraft missile system, using high-speed air-to-ground missiles sourced from China...
www.china-arms.com www.china-arms.com
Click to expand...

Screenshot_20231229-175318_1.jpg
This was from the turkish defence Expo.
 
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