PA Options against Indian Armour - ATGMs on MANPADS & Attack Gunship Helicopter - News & Discussions

[super falcon]

First of all pak stop it's focus on heavy tank fleet and start induction of specialized infantry fighting vehicles which can be used and flexible to carry out variety of operations and they are force multipliars to defend entire tank infantry battalion with anti tank and with shorg to medium range air defence systems better we Induct VN 17 Like infantry fighting vehicles which are based on vt 4 tank chassis's which will make logistics and maintaining job easy for pak army machenics in war times .

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[Oscar]

The BGM-71E in service with PA has the tandem warhead against ERA - and the limited RF versions help ameliorate some of the issues with wire tangles but are prone to signal interference.

The solution may lie in shoot and scoot standoff guided munitions launchers coupled with UAV surveillance based on costs.

 

[CSAW]

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[Harbyharb]

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View attachment 5251
View attachment 5252

I generally do not like TOW in an anti-tank role, primarily because in the classic tripod setup it is so disgustingly heavy compared to say, 9M113 and 9M133.

That being said, TOW have an unexpected advantage in actual combat use, where Anti-tank guided missiles are more used as Anti-everything-except-tank guided missiles. TOW is a big missile, it has a lot of fuel and a larger warhead. The stated range of less than 4km is more limited by the wire length instead of the physical capability of the missile. Experienced hands can reliably lob TOW missiles to 6km by taking drop distance into account, and even instances in syria where TOW missile struck static targets at around 10km. And with the very hefty warhead ~6kg, this can be very lethal not just for vehicles, but also against both structures and personnel.

TOW mounted on the back of pickup trucks is somewhat of an icon in the post 2010 middle east for a good reason, just not necessarily for the missile's original intended purpose.

 

[CSAW]

RAADWS

"Roketsan continues to create solutions to enable the missiles that it has developed with an innovative approach to be fired from different platforms. The Roketsan Antitank and Air Defense Weapon System (RAADWS) stands out as a unique solution."



The Roketsan Antitank and Air Defense Weapon System (RAADWS) stands out as a unique solution that has been developed to provide Laser and Imaging Infrared Seeker (IIR) guided missiles and SUNGUR (Portable Air Defense Missile).

The RAADWS offers its users the ability to carry:

• 4 UMTAS/L-UMTAS;
• 8 CİRİT
• 2 UMTAS/L-UMTAS and 4 CİRİT
• 4 OMTAS
• 4 SUNGUR (Air Defense Missile)

Developed to destroy tanks, light armoured vehicles, personnel and targets of opportunity, and air defense threats such as UAVs, helicopters, and jet aircraft the RAADWS stands out with its advanced features.

The system is the only weapon system in the world capable of firing five different types of missiles with both laser and IIR guidance.

The RAADWS can be fired while moving up to 40 km speed thanks to its stabilized turret, offering the user potent strike capability at ranges of up to 8 km and 6 km effective altitude if required to be used as Mobile Air Defense Vehicle.

This system can also carry out reconnaissance and surveillance missions for ranges up to 20 km, with its high-tech electro-optic system. Roketsan also can integrate 7.62 mm Machine Guns into the RAADWS.

 

[CSAW]

Indian Army T-72s against evolving threats.

 

[Joe Shearer]

As any former western Tanker can tell you are basic tactic is get there fast and break things. That is it. All of the tactics are based on infantry tactics and movements. Tankers just do it quicker and with bigger guns.

Precisely.

And tanks are a substitute - a fast-moving substitute - for artillery. If an adversary mounted six or seven artillery divisions, equipped with 155 mm howitzers, with sufficient missile air cover, the infantry formations that have been shown would be swept away in fifteen days' time.

 

[Joe Shearer]

One aspect not pointed out is the ability of artillery to take out enemy armor. Im not sure if M712 Copperhead is being used by PA, but it can be used by M-109 and M-198 artillery. Maybe SH-1 has capability against enemy armor. I remember seeing a presentation of artillery howitzers being deployed with anti-armor ammunition but it was a long time back and I had to sit forcibly in auditorium to watch it so don't remember much

You beat me to it. Again.

 

[Pingle]

Entire scenario will depend upon which side is ATTACKING..... in Indo-Pak scenario attacker is most likely to get a bloody nose... both are well armed and big enough to handle emergency..... Pak right now has an edge with VT-4 but that won't decide outcome in its favor.....

 

[Joe Shearer]

one of which being a relative negligence on accompanying anti-aircraft capability. Unlike modern Sino-Russian unit composition where army units enjoy command and cover of various, mulit-tiered air defense bubble layers (S-300V - Buk - Tor - Pantsir), Pakistani air defense systems are usually in command of the Air Force, not army, and used primarily in support of air campaigns or defending air bases, which exposes ground units to not just conventional air threats, but as current experience have shown, an incredible vulnerability against loitering munition and improvised drone attacks. This is certainly a very important aspect where PA have room for improvement in, but air defense systems don't come cheap and it is certainly a very big challenge. India have a large, relatively outdated, but present accompanying air defense capability, which, as TB-2 Ukraine experience have shown, is enough to render most MALE drones ineffective

This blade cuts both ways.

Concentrating air defence in Air Force hands MAY be effective if these resources are not used to shield points or locations that have political capital tied up in them, for instance, to guard the Indian capital region, rather than army bases or assembly points for campaigns outwards. Used in such defensive postures means stalemate, with neither side able to do anything other than shoot off a day's artillery ammunition against each other.

Placing these assets as mobile, self-propelled resources available at operational level is much more conducive to decisive conditions for war, but what is the operational level?

Everyone's favourite locker room gossip is about so-called Integrated Battle Groups; they give rise to scepticism. What do they integrate, how far up, how far sideways, how far back? How much air power do they have? Are attack helicopters and an armoured and an air cavalry part of them? How are they serviced in terms of logistics, since they are supposed to move fast? What happens in the finely-sanded and non-traversible Thar, that is so different from the coastal reaches of the Sahara that represent degraded Roman fields, rather than deep desert? Logistics flows to the front; can our Indo-Pak systems cope? What about the reverse flow, of wounded soldiers needing urgent treatment? Nobody seems to think about it, and one micro-Rommel in the Indian Army - sorry, nano-Patton - actually proposed in an exercise abandoning the wounded where they lay. If you want to recruit him to the NLI, you are welcome.

IMO, the ideal integrated unit contains air and air defence down at sub-conventional brigade level and with command structures - communications - in place to group them rapidly to move in any direction at very short notice, and without outrunning their logistics and medical support. I doubt we can do that yet on the sub-continent. We are still in the era of shiny new toys.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I generally do not like TOW in an anti-tank role, primarily because in the classic tripod setup it is so disgustingly heavy compared to say, 9M113 and 9M133.

That being said, TOW have an unexpected advantage in actual combat use, where Anti-tank guided missiles are more used as Anti-everything-except-tank guided missiles. TOW is a big missile, it has a lot of fuel and a larger warhead. The stated range of less than 4km is more limited by the wire length instead of the physical capability of the missile. Experienced hands can reliably lob TOW missiles to 6km by taking drop distance into account, and even instances in syria where TOW missile struck static targets at around 10km. And with the very hefty warhead ~6kg, this can be very lethal not just for vehicles, but also against both structures and personnel.

TOW mounted on the back of pickup trucks is somewhat of an icon in the post 2010 middle east for a good reason, just not necessarily for the missile's original intended purpose.

This is a substitute for self-propelled artillery, and is essentially a work-around for a failed mixture of arms and services.

 

[Joe Shearer]

View attachment 15089
Indian Army T-72s against evolving threats.

It is possible to ridicule soldiers sitting on our backsides. I request very sincerely that we do not see this kind of shit again.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Our strategy is offensive defence....meaning we would be defending under the full umbrella of surface to air missile, man pads, atgm, artillery n air cover....if the given assets are managed properly then the Indians will dead in the water.
Once the Indian thrust has been neutralized then only the offensive part comes along

 

[Joe Shearer]

.if the given assets are managed properly then the Indians will dead in the water.

Philip II King of Macedon was very annoyed with the Spartans. The rest of Greece had sumitted to him, even Athens, goaded to defiance by Demosthenes, and only Sparta held out. He sent his ambassador to the Spartans to bring them to heel.
The ambassador addressed the assembly, and the five ephors, and held out the dire consequences that their contumely would bring on them, "...if King Philip were to turn his attention from more weighty matters to dealing with the Spartans!"
The assembly heard his long and angry diatribe politely, and asked for time till the morrow to respond.
The ambassador was astonished to be told early the next morning that an Ephor awaited him. Normally the Ephors, who ran the state, not their two joint kings, were rarely to be met personally. The ambassador hurried out, with some feeling that such an early visit must mean that the foolish Spartans had spent a bad night and now wanted to make peace. "Well?" he asked the grave old man, "Has Sparta thought about what my master had to say?" The graybeard nodded. "What is your answer?" asked the Macedonian.
The Spartan replied, "If", and turned and walked away.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Philip II King of Macedon was very annoyed with the Spartans. The rest of Greece had sumitted to him, even Athens, goaded to defiance by Demosthenes, and only Sparta held out. He sent his ambassador to the Spartans to bring them to heel.
The ambassador addressed the assembly, and the five ephors, and held out the dire consequences that their contumely would bring on them, "...if King Philip were to turn his attention from more weighty matters to dealing with the Spartans!"
The assembly heard his long and angry diatribe politely, and asked for time till the morrow to respond.
The ambassador was astonished to be told early the next morning that an Ephor awaited him. Normally the Ephors, who ran the state, not their two joint kings, were rarely to be met personally. The ambassador hurried out, with some feeling that such an early visit must mean that the foolish Spartans had spent a bad night and now wanted to make peace. "Well?" he asked the grave old man, "Has Sparta thought about what my master had to say?" The graybeard nodded. "What is your answer?" asked the Macedonian.
The Spartan replied, "If", and turned and walked away.

Uve after all these years have guessed it right.......Indian subcontinent is Pakistans property n all the ppl living their are Pakistans subject.