PAF Conducts Successful Test Launch of Taimoor ALCM

[Toxic]

brother Dozens are not good for us. at least 200 should be good enough. lol am civilian i think it my way of thinking

You can't wish something into existence.

 

[Oscar]

Tell France and uk to ditch Scalp/storm shadow, Germany to ditch KEPD and US to burn all JASSM stockpiles.

You understand that it will follow waypoints planned to avoid AD and will be part of an over all mission and not a single missile.

Keep in mind that the more speed you have the greater the stresses on the airframe. Which means tighter turns are not possible and you turn like a train.
In all their launches all Brahmos does at best is a dogleg to disguise vector and that dogleg turn itself is massive in radius.
Otherwise you can tell they are coming in with either same or MORE warning time than a SCALP.

 

[safriz]

What will the rocket booster do?
What size will it have to be and how much weight and drag will it add?
How will it boost range to 750km?

May be a good idea for anti ship version? Some anti ship missiles have this booster for terminal phase .
They go subsonic the entire flight and then supersonic just before hitting the target.

 

[Bilal]

Keep in mind that the more speed you have the greater the stresses on the airframe. Which means tighter turns are not possible and you turn like a train.
In all their launches all Brahmos does at best is a dogleg to disguise vector and that dogleg turn itself is massive in radius.
Otherwise you can tell they are coming in with either same or MORE warning time than a SCALP.

we can’t expect Brahmos to follow let’s say 6 way points to bypass/avoid something by circling around it.

 

[safriz]

Not just dodging maneuvers but we can’t expect Brahmos to follow let’s say 6 way points to bypass/avoid something by circling around it.

Brahmos is the brightest thing in the sky after the sun, when viewed in IR spectrum.
Thats not very stealthy i guess.
One of those rotating barrels Vulcan with an IR seeker will be fine as a point defense against Brahmos.

 

[TAC]

PAF DGPR is official source. And yes you are right, 290km is export version to comply with MTCR.

They are emphasising ‘conventional’ so that there is no confusion during Sindoor 2.

 

[Oscar]

For Land:
It would and that is why the ability to plan your path comes in handy. So previously two factors were responsible for this:
1. Lack of terrain maps
2. Lack of time/compute to plan a path that avoids problematic terrain.
However, now we have detailed terrain maps (our enemy is just India while the USA has mapped the world well now I'm sure), and computation is fast and cheap.

So I am speculating here but for USA they probably do a path-planning problem that considers the terrain from the launch site to the target site right before launch because they have to deal with the flexibility of targets.

The upside of this being an expensive and rare system for us is that we have a Taimoor for target X, for which we have already computed paths for. Likely, we just modify these paths based on AD sites and let it rip.

For Sea:
Yes, this is kind of unavoidable. You need other kinds of guidance like maybe some kind of local radio beacons or really accurate INS. But I don't think Taimoor is really meant for an antishipping role at 600 km. Maybe for anti shipping we only want to hit targets up to 200 km. I am only speculating.

We should all have a "pinned" posts thing - so you and others dont have to post the same thing again and again. But I guess it's good for mental work.

The challenge with the Sea aspect is that it constantly needs an over-the-horizon sensor to provide updates. I do not know of Brahmos but assume it to be true - that much like planned "swarm" launches of P-700 or P-800 one missile would climb up to a higher altitude pop up manuever either mid course or near expected coordinates to get a fix and drop back down.

The Russians (and likely with India) rely on a third sensor that is not the launch platform like a Tu-95 or P-8I to provide more precise updates.
For that matter the math gets both more dependent on networked sensors for subsonic than supersonics. But then subsonic systems have an advantage that they can take much more varied paths that create greater complexity for CIWS and Last leg SAM systems.

At the end single subsonic shots rarely penetrate; success demands large salvos (dozens) from varied bearings to overload fire channels, deplete interceptors, and force CIWS prioritization errors.

Is the PN there?
I certainly dont think so.

 

[Oscar]

May be a good idea for anti ship version? Some anti ship missiles have this booster for terminal phase .
They go subsonic the entire flight and then supersonic just before hitting the target.

The only ones that do so are Chinese and Russian types. The penalty for it is significant.
for e.g for the Kalibr.
Launch weight jumps to around 1,900–2,300 kg for the full 3M-54 (with booster), versus 1,300–1,600 kg for the lighter 3M-54E1 or 3M-14 land-attack versions without the sprint capability. Extra staging demands precise sequencing, tandem propulsion, and thermal management, raising production costs by 20–50% over simpler subsonic designs.

It does nothing for range however as the original message I was quoting proposes.

 

[Toxic]

Brahmos is the brightest thing in the sky after the sun, when viewed in IR spectrum.
Thats not very stealthy i guess.
One of those rotating barrels Vulcan with an IR seeker will be fine as a point defense against Brahmos.

A fast moving target is the exact thing gun based CIWS system struggle against, just an extremely tiny engagement window.

 

[Khansaheeb]

03 January, 2026: Pakistan Air Force has successfully conducted the flight test of the indigenously developed Taimoor Weapon System, marking another significant milestone in the advancement of national aerospace and defence capabilities. Taimoor Air-Launched Cruise Missile is capable of engaging enemy land and sea targets with high precision at a range of 600 kilometers, carrying a conventional warhead. Equipped with state-of-the-art navigation and guidance system, Taimoor is designed to fly at very low altitudes, enabling it to effectively evade hostile air and missile defence systems. Its precision-strike capability significantly enhances the conventional deterrence and operational flexibility of Pakistan Air Force, further strengthening the country’s overall defence posture. The successful flight test underscores the technical maturity, innovation and self-reliance achieved by Pakistan’s defence industry. The launch was witnessed by senior officers of the Pakistan Armed Forces, along with distinguished scientists and engineers who played a pivotal role in the development of this advanced weapon system.

Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu, Chief of the Air Staff, Pakistan Air Force, heartily congratulated the scientists, engineers and the entire PAF team on this remarkable achievement. He lauded their professional excellence, dedication and unwavering commitment to strengthening Pakistan’s defence capabilities. The Air Chief reaffirmed that such accomplishments are a testament to the nation’s resolve to achieve technological self-sufficiency and maintain a credible conventional deterrent in the evolving regional security environment. The successful test of the Taimoor weapon system reflects Pakistan Air Force’s continued pursuit of operational readiness, technological superiority and national security objectives

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Looks like a repository for Modi

 

[JamD]

Let me just say that I love threads like these that allow me to really go on and on about my dayjob and passion. I love this stuff more than anything so I really appreciate all of your inputs in this thread even if I may disagree on some points.

We are still referring to 1990s desert storm era problems. I am guessing , Most of those issues dont exist anymore due to far more detailed terrain data available and many times more memory and processing power available.
I mean the most advanced language back then , above machine language was C+ you could use for making software for these systems. I guess now you can use Python, which needs higher Processing power than C+.
Also a lot more reference images and data can be saved in Missile's memory compared to the 90s.

Back in the 80s when TERCOM and DSMAC were developed. GPS was not called GPS, it was called Satnav. Because satellites did not have global coverage, and system could not be called Global.

I was a user at the time. We could get a satellite fix once every 6 hours. In between we relied on LORAN-C and sometime OMEGA with those lattice charts . OMEGA is defunct now, i guess LORAN is still functional. Because to get a SATNAV fix, you need at least 3 satellites above the horizon. In those times, that happened only once every 6 hours. Later the constellation had more satellites , and this problem was resolved.

Due to the above experience, i am assuming that most of the issues the US faced with Tomahaks, during the 80s and 90s for guidance and navigation, may not be relevant today anymore.

I was pointing to the advancement of technologies yes. Let me just say that the systems on our weapons aren't the bleeding edge of technology because:
a) we are not the USA
b) there is institutional inertia - so there's legacy code and hardware for specific hardware and updating is painful
c) we have restrictions on importing the latest equipment.
However, with all of that being said, the things I pointed out in my post allow low-tech systems to avoid the terrain problems for our specific scenario.

.
MEMS (butterfly) accelerometer and gyros are possible but can’t say it’s about accuracy. Also the timing data accuracy would be low.

Thats where the DARPA chip excels.

This level of Inertial navigation data is now available on Mobile phone gyroscopes. With a well written software, commercially available INS sensors used on phones can be used.

Sorry, I cannot agree with that statement. The noise in gyros and accelerometers primarily determines the drift that you get over time. No amount of software trickery can get rid of fundamental limitations. Commercial grade MEMS sensors are nowhere near clean required for INS over any meaningful range. I'm not even considering Schur tuning because obviously these sensors aren't good enough to take advantage of that.

Yes, commercial sensors have improved making things like Pixhawk (which augment their shitty INS with GNSS) possible but your statement is a very big exaggeration.

Rocket booster in final version could be added as its not the final product, many tests and may be redesign may happen to make it fit for all PAF platforms excluding F-16s.

Could've should've would've. We need to remain in the realm of reality, no?

What will the rocket booster do?
What size will it have to be and how much weight and drag will it add?
How will it boost range to 750km?

I don't man. I also have something that can produce numbers out of nowhere. Hint: I'm sitting on it.

May be a good idea for anti ship version? Some anti ship missiles have this booster for terminal phase .
They go subsonic the entire flight and then supersonic just before hitting the target.

Don't forget this is air launched. On one hand we're concerned about its size and on the other hand we want to increase its size even more.

we can’t expect Brahmos to follow let’s say 6 way points to bypass/avoid something by circling around it.

Exactly. WP following is our CMs biggest super power. Path planning is really fun, multidomain, and complicated problem.

 

[Bilal]

Sorry, I cannot agree with that statement. The noise in gyros and accelerometers primarily determines the drift that you get over time. No amount of software trickery can get rid of fundamental limitations. Commercial grade MEMS sensors are nowhere near clean required for INS over any meaningful range. I'm not even considering Schur tuning because obviously these sensors aren't good enough to take advantage of that.

Yes, commercial sensors have improved making things like Pixhawk (which augment their shitty INS with GNSS) possible but your statement is a very big exaggeration.

Aren’t there military grade MEMS IMU out there. I believe China makes them too.

 

[RandomThoughts7]

Hi, this is a very nice and concise explanation of the missile.

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[Bilal]

Hi, this is a very nice and concise explanation of the missile.

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He exaggerates things usually. He is saying Raad has spoofing/jamming capabilities to break locks.

 

[JamD]

Aren’t there military grade MEMS IMU out there. I believe China makes them too.

Sure there are. But this is a vague description. What primarily governs the quality of your INS is the noise in your sensors, which determines the drift per time in your INS. A military grade MEMS IMU may be good enough so an INS based on it can give a position that only drifts 100m in an hour. But that would be terrible for lets say a submarine. MEMS just means on a chip. So yes there are options but it really depends on your application. You also need to. consider your loads because that lets you filter things. Submarines can use aggressive filtering because they don't experience many Gs. A tube launched mlrs experiences many Gs so it can't rely on filtering that much. Just one aspect of INS. I don't want to turn this thread into INS. INS is a field.