PAF F-16 | Discussions

[Meengla]

Well, frankly, many people, including me, are perplexed by Trump II Presidency putting some 'balance' between India and Pakistan--a balance which virtually vanished after Bush Junior was replaced by Obama. For the last several months, I am not following why Trump's change of heart about Pakistan and India. People like Michael Kugelman were also baffled. I used to think Trump was giving minor concessions to Pakistan to coerce India into giving major concessions but I am not sure anymore.
Regardless of that, from browsing multiple Indian and Pakistan channels in last few days, it appears Pakistan has scored a major win with this F-16 deal.

 

[Blain2]

This is a fantastic upgrade. What is left unstated matters more than what has been stated.

 

[KingQamaR]

Same old America no surprise from them . Read the small print they will not be offering PAF F16s any real upgrade there will be no major upgrading your F16s radars to AESA radars. This American $690 million package is just to keep your birds air worthy till 2040 that’s about it? I hope Americans are paying for this otherwise it’s a waste of Pak money if they did it.

 

[Blain2]

686 million dollars for Link 16 radios? I wonder how they budgeted this out. Couldn't we have re-equipped an F-7 squadron with thunders for that much?

No, it's not for that. If you want to understand this properly, you have to go back and look at what Pakistan has been trying to do/asking the Americans since the beginning of this decade (and it does not even have anything to do with what went on in May). Link-16 updates (we already have that capability fleet-wide) like any data network/link, over time, requires the terminals, buses and capacities to be upgraded to take on much larger amounts of data for better situational awareness.

The reason you want to spend on the F-16 fleet is that it can deliver "massive" amounts of ordnance with pin-point accuracy in numbers (70+) that are a strategic advantage (it has more payload, thrust than even blk3 JF-17s). The only thing lacking in the current Meteor scenario is the longer stick on the Viper and inshallah that too will get addressed with the upgrades being taken on and more to come.

 

[Blain2]

Same old America no surprise from them . Read the small print they will not be offering PAF F16s any real upgrade there will be no major upgrading your F16s radars to AESA radars. This American $690 million package is just to keep your birds air worthy till 2040 that’s about it? I hope Americans are paying for this otherwise it’s a waste of Pak money if they did it.

Have a little faith. Jumping the gun, specially when ill-informed, helps no one.

 

[Ak01]

Same old America no surprise from them . Read the small print they will not be offering PAF F16s any real upgrade there will be no major upgrading your F16s radars to AESA radars. This American $690 million package is just to keep your birds air worthy till 2040 that’s about it? I hope Americans are paying for this otherwise it’s a waste of Pak money if they did it.

ah yes, keeping your aircraft airworthy...what a waste of money.

 

[KingQamaR]

ah yes, keeping your aircraft airworthy...what a waste of money.

It’s not our money being wasted it’s US financing this harmless upgrade.

 

[KingQamaR]

Have a little faith. Jumping the gun, specially when ill-informed, helps no one.

Hopefully this is not true. But radars are not being upgraded.

 

[Gripen9]

Same old America no surprise from them . Read the small print they will not be offering PAF F16s any real upgrade there will be no major upgrading your F16s radars to AESA radars. This American $690 million package is just to keep your birds air worthy till 2040 that’s about it? I hope Americans are paying for this otherwise it’s a waste of Pak money if they did it.

Why would PAF want to keep them airworthy through 2040 if they are to become irrelevant due to outdated Avionics and armament package?

 

[KingQamaR]

Why would PAF want to keep them airworthy through 2040 if they are to become irrelevant due to outdated Avionics and armament package?

This upgrade will not include AESA radars or avionics. Kind of useless

 

[Gripen9]

This upgrade will not include AESA radars or avionics. Kind of useless

This doesn't. The follow up will.

 

[Quwa]

Others have asked the question as well. Didn't our F-16 already have Link16 installed? Or is it just the blk52+ that have Link16?

If this is just Comms upgrade + SLEP with V kits being declined/not offered as a follow up, will we be allowed to pursue Turkish upgrade option?

@Oscar alluded that the vipers may be primarily tasked as "bomb trucks" go forward. Will we be allowed to integrate non US munitions suchbas Turk SOW / SOM etc? Otherwise we'll only have paveways or JDAMs available for ground attack. We have junked our old AGM65s years ago.

This package is for new Link-16 terminals with cryptography and other updates added post-2020. Basically, our F-16s today can only comms on Mode 4, the upgrade will allow them to comms and data share on Mode 5 with the latest US, NATO, and European built aircraft (that BD and Gulf partners will use).

$686 M sounds like a lot, but it's for 70+ F-16s and for coverage till 2040. That is the key date: whatever will replace the F-16 Block-15s will be fully inducted and operating by 2040, meaning an order (be it for J-35AE or otherwise, and don't sleep on "otherwise") will be done by 2030.

Moreover, there's a nicely nested hint in the DSCA notification re: a possible Block-72 or at least V-upgrade path. When you break down all of the things the PAF will get on this package, one thing is totally unnecessary to the Link-16, but critical for V/B72.

 

[Blain2]

It’s not our money being wasted it’s US financing this harmless upgrade.

No, it is not. How did you arrive at that? Pakistan has no military assistance funding with the US any more. All of the funds for Pakistan were repurposed.

 

[Blain2]

Hopefully this is not true. But radars are not being upgraded.

Because this will be done in steps. There are other considerations/challenges to address.

 

[Blain2]

This package is for new Link-16 terminals with cryptography and other updates added post-2020. Basically, our F-16s today can only comms on Mode 4, the upgrade will allow them to comms and data share on Mode 5 with the latest US, NATO, and European built aircraft (that BD and Gulf partners will use).

$686 M sounds like a lot, but it's for 70+ F-16s and for coverage till 2040. That is the key date: whatever will replace the F-16 Block-15s will be fully inducted and operating by 2040, meaning an order (be it for J-35AE or otherwise, and don't sleep on "otherwise") will be done by 2030.

Moreover, there's a nicely nested hint in the DSCA notification re: a possible Block-72 or at least V-upgrade path. When you break down all of the things the PAF will get on this package, one thing is totally unnecessary to the Link-16, but critical for V/B72.

Yes, and I think there is even more nuance in this deal than what is stated in it. My own take is that this is a really good step.