PAF F-16 | Discussions

Scorpio said:
List of fighter jets to be replaced in PAF is pretty long...

They have served much above there service life ...

Now thay are dangerous for our valuable Pilots ...

Replacing them quickly is not affordable and not even practical..

First Mirages have to go .. then F7 PGs .. after that we can think about old block F16s ...

So we have to keep our F16 air worthy and effective till that time ..

That means we have give them some upgrades as well ..

Remember F16s Airframes life time is higher then other jet in our inventory ...
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According to Selchuk Bayraktar, Baykar can produce 20 (twenty) stealthy KIZILELMAs for the cost of a single F-16's lifetime cost. He has got a formula to costeffectively dot the airspace with numerous assets....
 
Reichmarshal said:
...estimates range from $43 million to $70 million per aircraft for the upgrade alone.

For the block 52 C/D versions a larger more comprehensive package is offered. The price of which can go as high as 100 million $ per ac.
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rafale said:
Boss, i highly doubt the 100 million USD per A/C cost......just makes no sense. You can buy a brand new F-16 in that.......
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@Reichmarshal
I'd have to agree with @rafale on the price.

Recently, Colombia just placed an order for 24 Block 70's - each costing $108 Million per unit.

I'll dig a bit deeper & see what it cost the Hellenic (Greek) Air Force & Taiwan to upgrade their Vipers.
 
Trailer23 said:
@Reichmarshal
I'd have to agree with @rafale on the price.

Recently, Colombia just placed an order for 24 Block 70's - each costing $108 Million per unit.

I'll dig a bit deeper & see what it cost the Hellenic (Greek) Air Force & Taiwan to upgrade their Vipers.
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I am as perplexed as u on the price of these ac but it is wt it is. 100 mil is the price of the ac not the " fly away " price of the ac.

Eg The US State Department approved a sale of 20 F-16 Block 70/72 aircraft for the Philippines at a whopping $5.58 billion, which averages to about $279 million per aircraft.
An other eg
Back in September 2017 it was announced that 19 F-16Vs Block 70s were being sold to Bahrain for an estimated $2.785 billion. This includes all “associated equipment”.

That comes out to $146,578,947 per unit cost. And what i have been able to gather is that the Bahrain version was the most " basic".
 
To cut it short.....
the price depends on the extent/ comprehensiveness of the upgrade.
Plus the state of the ac.

My guess is that the high cost is for nations who are inducting the f 16 for the first time and need ti create the whole ecosystem from the ground up.
For nations which already have the system in place and have a association in plane....it costs less to absorb the upgrades.
My cost estimates for upgrading our block 52 would be anY where from 40 to 60 mil $

Even though LM claims that the block 70/72 is a new ac altogether.
 
Reichmarshal said:
The cost of upgrading F-16s to the F-16V standard configuration varies depending on the specific upgrade package, the number of aircraft, and the vendor. However, estimates range from $43 million to $70 million per aircraft for the upgrade alone.
The above is the estimated upgrade cost for our older block 15 block 20 A/B versions. The ones which went throught the mlu.

For the block 52 C/D versions a larger more comprehensive package is offered. The price of which can go as high as 100 million $ per ac.

So again it would be cheaper to buy/manufacture newer j10c/jf 17 block 3.
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Brand new F-16's cost between $70-110 million baseline, plus add on what options you select. The cost of upgrades between $43 to 70 million seems very high, it means for $70 million, you can buy a brand new baseline F-16.

Note, the fly away cost includes training, weapons and spares, that could mean near $200 million per jet. You can't take that number.

However, I am with you on J-10CE's more numbers. Must buy!

For F-16's, we have 45 older F-16's block 15 MLU. We can use Murad Radar upgrades with Turkish long range BVR's like Gokhan, Gokbora, etc. And bring them into front line service. This is a massive jump. Because AMRAAM that will be offered to us, will still have lesser range than Turkey and China's. So better to get Turkish radars and BVR's and use these 45 units for front line service. It will be a massive boost to have 45 more units for front line BVR fights.

We can get the block 52 to V standard, only 18 of them and we know their AMRAAM will lack range compared to Turkish and Chinese BVR so they'll go into 2nd tier air defense.
 
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Reichmarshal said:
To cut it short.....
the price depends on the extent/ comprehensiveness of the upgrade.
Plus the state of the ac.

My guess is that the high cost is for nations who are inducting the f 16 for the first time and need ti create the whole ecosystem from the ground up.
For nations which already have the system in place and have a association in plane....it costs less to absorb the upgrades.
My cost estimates for upgrading our block 52 would be anY where from 40 to 60 mil $

Even though LM claims that the block 70/72 is a new ac altogether.
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F-16 Block 70/72 is a new production aircraft with complete new advanced systems throughout the design, extended airframe life(12000 hours), and modern features when it comes to aircraft monitoring and other systems .

The F-16V upgrade modernizes older F-16s with advanced avionics and radar but does not change their fundamental block designation. Upgrading Block 52 aircraft to the V standard involves internal and possibly airframe life upgrades but does not make them Block 70/72 jets.

Lockheed Martin offers the Block 70/72 as a new aircraft separately from the V upgrade package. In essence, Block 70/72 is a new-build model, while the V upgrade is a modernization for existing aircraft.
 
Oscar said:
F-16 Block 70/72 is a new production aircraft with complete new advanced systems throughout the design, extended airframe life(12000 hours), and modern features when it comes to aircraft monitoring and other systems .

The F-16V upgrade modernizes older F-16s with advanced avionics and radar but does not change their fundamental block designation. Upgrading Block 52 aircraft to the V standard involves internal and possibly airframe life upgrades but does not make them Block 70/72 jets.

Lockheed Martin offers the Block 70/72 as a new aircraft separately from the V upgrade package. In essence, Block 70/72 is a new-build model, while the V upgrade is a modernization for existing aircraft.
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Hi, this pdf gives a high level overview of the F16V.

 
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Reichmarshal said:
The cost of upgrading F-16s to the F-16V standard configuration varies depending on the specific upgrade package, the number of aircraft, and the vendor. However, estimates range from $43 million to $70 million per aircraft for the upgrade alone.
The above is the estimated upgrade cost for our older block 15 block 20 A/B versions. The ones which went throught the mlu.

For the block 52 C/D versions a larger more comprehensive package is offered. The price of which can go as high as 100 million $ per ac.

So again it would be cheaper to buy/manufacture newer j10c/jf 17 block 3.
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$70M per jet seems too high, we would be better off buying 2 J10C's for the cost of one upgrade
 
ThoroughPro said:
$70M per jet seems too high, we would be better off buying 2 J10C's for the cost of one upgrade
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PAF goes for upgrades are in budget range...

Otherwise J10 or J35 are better and new option ..
 
ThoroughPro said:
$70M per jet seems too high, we would be better off buying 2 J10C's for the cost of one upgrade
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no you wouldnt.

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explained here.
 
Bentley777 said:
Pak should upgrade their f16 it has nothing to do with j10c its a different platform and can be our only western fighter jet platform in the future can't let it go.PAF should pursue it with asking Usa Officially.
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Too expensive. PAF might want to bear all that massive costs only if weapon package includes AIM-120D plus also weapon package for air to ground stand off weapons. Right now our F-16s only can carry LGBs as ground weapons. Which makes them ineffective against any ground targets across the eastern border.

If such a weapon package is approved (which I doubt ) then ofcourse it would be a great addition to the fleet.
 
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