PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[rafale]

These are wrong numbers for KJ-500, just like PL-15's case. KJ-500 is Chinese mainstay kill-chain battle space management system, not just an AWACS. Erieye is an AWACS. Although Erieye performed well in limited conflict.

KJ-500 is an OTH solution, designed to support air, land and naval operations as far as 700-1000 KM out in multi-domain environment. Similar to Boeing E-7.

That means, space, air born, naval, and ground assets as well as being a hub and spoke for missiles, loitering munitions and drone guidance. The total volume of these connected assets could be in hundreds.

I doubt the 1000km surveillance range......at that much range out, the curvature of earth gives serious problems on extremely high frequency waves of the modern AESA radars.........

 

[GriffinsRule]

I don't see any need for a new AWACS platform given how much time and resources have been invested in Saab 2000. Only way PAF might even have to consider it is, if China forces it upon us as a condition to buy J-35s.
Saab being a smaller platform, available in larger numbers gives us better redundancy, operational flexibility, and lower costs all around.
Even performance wise, Saab 2000 climbs faster, has higher max and cruise speeds, almost the same ceiling and has proven itself in performance. There is also a clear pathway for upgrades with the ER version of Erieye radar.

 

[Yasser76]

I don't see any need for a new AWACS platform given how much time and resources have been invested in Saab 2000. Only way PAF might even have to consider it is, if China forces it upon us as a condition to buy J-35s.
Saab being a smaller platform, available in larger numbers gives us better redundancy, operational flexibility, and lower costs all around.
Even performance wise, Saab 2000 climbs faster, has higher max and cruise speeds, almost the same ceiling and has proven itself in performance. There is also a clear pathway for upgrades with the ER version of Erieye radar.

Yeah, let us not discount the combat proven part of your post, both in 2019 and this year.

Saab will be touting that to all current and new customers for sure

 

[PakShaheen_79]

Do we have any final number PAF has in mind for acquiring J-10Cs. Currently I believe only 20 odds are there which is v low. Must be more than 40 if we consider the pattern of fighter jet acquisition in the past.

 

[Ali Yusuf]

These are wrong numbers for KJ-500, just like PL-15's case. KJ-500 is Chinese mainstay kill-chain battle space management system, not just an AWACS. Erieye is an AWACS. Although Erieye performed well in limited conflict.

KJ-500 is an OTH solution, designed to support air, land and naval operations as far as 700-1000 KM out in multi-domain environment. Similar to Boeing E-7.

That means, space, air born, naval, and ground assets as well as being a hub and spoke for missiles, loitering munitions and drone guidance. The total volume of these connected assets could be in hundreds.

Well, if the information about the KJ-500 is wrong on the net, then you must be basing it on something more than just the PL-15 confusion created by gullible netizens. Kindly share the source of your assessment.

 

[RajaBaja]

Well, if the information about the KJ-500 is wrong on the net, then you must be basing it on something more than just the PL-15 confusion created by gullible netizens. Kindly share the source of your assessment.

Information is not for public consumption. I think that's very obvious from prior posts by our Chinese members and myself.

 

[Ali Yusuf]

Information is not for public consumption. I think that's very obvious from prior posts by our Chinese members and myself.

Yet, you just shared it in the public domain.

It becomes difficult to take something like that at face value and not wonder whether it is authentic or not??

 

[Michael]

Well, if the information about the KJ-500 is wrong on the net, then you must be basing it on something more than just the PL-15 confusion created by gullible netizens. Kindly share the source of your assessment.

1. To date, Chinese official agencies have never released specific performance data for the KJ-500. Nor has the KJ-500E (export version) been released.

2. CETC has launched a new AEW&C aircraft specifically for the foreign trade market. This AEW&C aircraft's appearance is somewhere between the KJ-500 and KJ-700. That is, it shares some KJ-700 and KJ-500 features, but it is distinct from both. This AEW&C uses a dual-sided rotating antenna. You can think of it as a simplified version of the KJ-700.

3. The KJ-500A has some minor upgrades, but the actual upgrades are very small. Its main upgrade is the addition of aerial refueling capabilities.

Again.
The KJ-500 is not for export!

 

[RajaBaja]

Yet, you just shared it in the public domain.

It becomes difficult to take something like that at face value and not wonder whether it is authentic or not??

Giving out a general idea that KJ-500 is a battle space management system, vs. just a traditional AWACS and it can manage long range operations like out to 700-1000 KM's, is not giving out specific details. These are "general" characteristics. Still not accurate because KJ-500's actual range may be 2000-3000 KM as it is an OTH solution. So no one will post actual details online. The discussion is general to give people an idea about it's differences with Erieye.

1. To date, Chinese official agencies have never released specific performance data for the KJ-500. Nor has the KJ-500E (export version) been released.

2. CETC has launched a new AEW&C aircraft specifically for the foreign trade market. This AEW&C aircraft's appearance is somewhere between the KJ-500 and KJ-700. That is, it shares some KJ-700 and KJ-500 features, but it is distinct from both. This AEW&C uses a dual-sided rotating antenna. You can think of it as a simplified version of the KJ-700.

3. The KJ-500A has some minor upgrades, but the actual upgrades are very small. Its main upgrade is the addition of aerial refueling capabilities.

Again.
The KJ-500 is not for export!

The rotation on e-scan takes a second or so for a 360 scan, and the data latency requirements for BVR operations are deemed precise and real time for fast moving and maneuvering targets. So Pakistan will not get the rotating radar.

Pakistan is focusing on getting a customized variant of the KJ-500 (KJ-700 standard). It won't be the export version and it won't be the Chinese version. The multi-domain sensor suite on KJ-700 standard fits our battle space management needs we now have.

 

[Ali Yusuf]

Giving out a general idea that KJ-500 is a battle space management system, vs. just a traditional AWACS and it can manage long range operations like out to 700-1000 KM's, is not giving out specific details.

How can you come up with a 700 km to 1000 km range just on the OTH basis?
The EriEye-ER is also an OTH solution with ranges between 550 km to 650 km.

 

[RajaBaja]

How can you come up with a 700 km to 1000 km range just on the OTH basis?
The EriEye-ER is also an OTH solution with ranges between 550 km to 650 km.

In posts above, I wrote about 3/4 times that KJ-500 is a battle space management solution compared to an AWACS. Erieye is an AWACS. If you knew details of what it means, you'd stop asking. I can't teach you what you don't understand.

 

[Ali Yusuf]

In posts above, I wrote about 3/4 times that KJ-500 is a battle space management solution compared to an AWACS. Erieye is an AWACS. If you knew details of what it means, you'd stop asking. I can't teach you what you don't understand.

Battlespace Management AEW&CS may or may not have a greater sensor range. It is not a given.

Key Differences Summarized:​

Feature	Conventional AEW&CS	Battlespace Management AEW&CS
Main Role	Air surveillance & early warning	Real-time control across air, land, sea
C2 Capabilities	Tactical-level fighter control	Strategic-level, joint force coordination
Sensor Fusion	Mostly radar + IFF	Multi-sensor fusion: radar, EO/IR, SIGINT
Network Ops	May relay info	Central node in net-centric operations
Mission Flexibility	Limited	Multi-mission: ISR, C2, coordination, targeting
Operational Domains	Mostly air	Air, land, sea, and space (in some cases)

A Battlespace Management AEW&CS is a command-and-control brain in the sky, designed not just to warn and watch, but to actively manage and coordinate modern, fast-moving, multi-domain combat operations. It's a core enabler of network-centric warfare, giving a military the edge in awareness, coordination, and decision speed across the entire battlespace.

Seems more like you can't teach me what you may be yourself not be too clear about.

Also, there is no information to suggest, AFAIK, that KJ-500 is a Battle Management AEW&CS.

 

[corven]

Battlespace Management AEW&CS may or may not have a greater sensor range. It is not a given.

Key Differences Summarized:​

Feature	Conventional AEW&CS	Battlespace Management AEW&CS
Main Role	Air surveillance & early warning	Real-time control across air, land, sea
C2 Capabilities	Tactical-level fighter control	Strategic-level, joint force coordination
Sensor Fusion	Mostly radar + IFF	Multi-sensor fusion: radar, EO/IR, SIGINT
Network Ops	May relay info	Central node in net-centric operations
Mission Flexibility	Limited	Multi-mission: ISR, C2, coordination, targeting
Operational Domains	Mostly air	Air, land, sea, cyberspace (in some cases)

A Battlespace Management AEW&CS is a command-and-control brain in the sky, designed not just to warn and watch, but to actively manage and coordinate modern, fast-moving, multi-domain combat operations. It's a core enabler of network-centric warfare, giving a military the edge in awareness, coordination, and decision speed across the entire battlespace.

Seems more like you can't teach me what you may be yourself not be too clear about.

Land, sea, air and space.

 

[Ak01]

In posts above, I wrote about 3/4 times that KJ-500 is a battle space management solution compared to an AWACS. Erieye is an AWACS. If you knew details of what it means, you'd stop asking. I can't teach you what you don't understand.

so you're saying its a "command" solution lol.

aew&C! which is what the erieye is too...

 

[Ak01]

Battlespace Management AEW&CS may or may not have a greater sensor range. It is not a given.

Key Differences Summarized:​

Feature	Conventional AEW&CS	Battlespace Management AEW&CS
Main Role	Air surveillance & early warning	Real-time control across air, land, sea
C2 Capabilities	Tactical-level fighter control	Strategic-level, joint force coordination
Sensor Fusion	Mostly radar + IFF	Multi-sensor fusion: radar, EO/IR, SIGINT
Network Ops	May relay info	Central node in net-centric operations
Mission Flexibility	Limited	Multi-mission: ISR, C2, coordination, targeting
Operational Domains	Mostly air	Air, land, sea, and space (in some cases)

A Battlespace Management AEW&CS is a command-and-control brain in the sky, designed not just to warn and watch, but to actively manage and coordinate modern, fast-moving, multi-domain combat operations. It's a core enabler of network-centric warfare, giving a military the edge in awareness, coordination, and decision speed across the entire battlespace.

Seems more like you can't teach me what you may be yourself not be too clear about.

Also, there is no information to suggest, AFAIK, that KJ-500 is a Battle Management AEW&CS.

AEW=doesnt do the extra bits, purely just surv


erieye etc are command solutions too, or as our friend calls them, battle mgmt