PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

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HemlockKhalid/AeronautIR said:
what did IAF achieve with Brahmos and SCALP hits? Apart from optics of those satellite pictures, nothing was gained.
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i mean, what it does show is nowhere is safe, and that in the first few days of a war, the IAF can render the PAF ineffective on the ground, if we dont fly, we dont kill...
 
HemlockKhalid/AeronautIR said:
Su-30 MKI is a liability against modern AESA equipped smaller aircraft with long range BVRs like PL-15.
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One question I had in mind is now the IAF wouldn't come within 200km range of PAF so they will resort to standoff weapons (like post 7th may), how will PAF counter that approach (we couldn't on 10th either in A2A) since IAF will entirely avoid coming within WEZ, essentially making Hi-Tech BVR fighters of PAF of little to no use
 
Ak01 said:
i mean, what it does show is nowhere is safe, and that in the first few days of a war, the IAF can render the PAF ineffective on the ground, if we dont fly, we dont kill...
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I would argue attack on PAF mushaf is the perfect example of this. PAF EW effectively dealt with 6-7 brahmos and protected the base but the one that did hit hit the intersection of both runways and effectively knocked them out for the duration of BuM. A great performance by PAF EW but a sobering reality of how terrifying brahmos swarms actually are
 
Ak01 said:
i mean, what it does show is nowhere is safe, and that in the first few days of a war, the IAF can render the PAF ineffective on the ground, if we dont fly, we dont kill...
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Again, how? Brahmos made a crater but couldn't stop the takeoff by rendering the runway inoperable... it can't hit aircraft parked in HAS... the number of Surface launchers and Brahmos capable Su-30 are quite limited.
India can't achieve much through cruise missiles only. There will be hits and it will take a psychological toll too, but their command knows the reality of what happened and can happen again.
 
Ibbi32 said:
I would argue attack on PAF mushaf is the perfect example of this. PAF EW effectively dealt with 6-7 brahmos and protected the base but the one that did hit hit the intersection of both runways and effectively knocked them out for the duration of BuM. A great performance by PAF EW but a sobering reality of how terrifying brahmos swarms actually are
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That crater was at end of main runway and center of secondary runway. Nothing on parallel taxi track that is a standby runway. You need at least 3 such craters equidistant on all surfaces. With the interception rate of 76%, you need whole IAF fleet of around 40 Su-30 MKI to take out runways of 1 PAF base.
Even if that is achieved, and I say if, rest of the PAF will be in air within minutes. And this can't be achieved by surface launched Brahmos as they don't have the same accuracy of ALCM.
 
HemlockKhalid/AeronautIR said:
Again, how? Brahmos made a crater but couldn't stop the takeoff by rendering the runway inoperable... it can't hit aircraft parked in HAS... the number of Surface launchers and Brahmos capable Su-30 are quite limited.
India can't achieve much through cruise missiles only. There will be hits and it will take a psychological toll too, but their command knows the reality of what happened and can happen again.
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There is a common misconception about the number of missiles vs launch platforms which Indians use and fear mongers on this side use.

Having the ability to manufacture a hundred or more Brahmos per year and having 1000 Brahmos (of all sub types and shelf time) doesn’t mean 1000 are ready to launch.

In reality it depends on the number of TELs(of which they have ~150 because they need to hide them in bunkers or hidden sheds) , MKIs which are wired to carry Brahmos(no more than 2 squadrons worth at MAX) and the rest are for their ships(which are the greater Brahmos threat).
 
Oscar said:
There is a common misconception about the number of missiles vs launch platforms which Indians use and fear mongers on this side use.

Having the ability to manufacture a hundred or more Brahmos per year and having 1000 Brahmos (of all sub types and shelf time) doesn’t mean 1000 are ready to launch.

In reality it depends on the number of TELs(of which they have ~150 because they need to hide them in bunkers or hidden sheds) , MKIs which are wired to carry Brahmos(no more than 2 squadrons worth at MAX) and the rest are for their ships(which are the greater Brahmos threat).
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Yup, only 40 Su-30 are Brahmos capable and Indian Army has 5 Brahmos batteries I think.
The Kolkata class destroyer can carry 16 Brahmos each but they can only threaten the Southern bases with current missile range, not to mention the threat to them by Maritime sqn of JF-17.
 
ThrustVector998 said:
One question I had in mind is now the IAF wouldn't come within 200km range of PAF so they will resort to standoff weapons (like post 7th may), how will PAF counter that approach (we couldn't on 10th either in A2A) since IAF will entirely avoid coming within WEZ, essentially making Hi-Tech BVR fighters of PAF of little to no use
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Firstly, this is the biggest failure of IAF that now they are a rocket force only. The primary role and foremost aim of any air force is air superiority through aerial engagements and if they stay away at 200 km, they have accept PAF's aerial dominance.
Secondly, as I mentioned earlier, they have 40 Brahmos capable Su-30 only. The serviceability rate was less than 70% but even I give them better odds, they can't pitch more than 30 aircraft. With number for Rafale, maximum possible launched cruise missiles will be 60.
Now, PAF has shown the capability of soft and hard kill for all vectors, though obviously it can never be 100% as we have seen in case of Israel too. With more SHORADS and better EW, let's say it is 80%. (though it will be better as PAF has already identified the loopholes)
So that means 48 will be intercepted and 12 will hit their target which is not enough for any strategic level damage.
Thirdly, when I will go for my attack in response, Indian aircraft have to stay away and they are only banking on SAM systems. By knocking them out like S-400 mission on 10th, whole India is vulnerable till 200 km from IB.
 
HemlockKhalid/AeronautIR said:
Firstly, this is the biggest failure of IAF that now they are a rocket force only. The primary role and foremost aim of any air force is air superiority through aerial engagements and if they stay away at 200 km, they have accept PAF's aerial dominance.
Secondly, as I mentioned earlier, they have 40 Brahmos capable Su-30 only. The serviceability rate was less than 70% but even I give them better odds, they can't pitch more than 30 aircraft. With number for Rafale, maximum possible launched cruise missiles will be 60.
Now, PAF has shown the capability of soft and hard kill for all vectors, though obviously it can never be 100% as we have seen in case of Israel too. With more SHORADS and better EW, let's say it is 80%. (though it will be better as PAF has already identified the loopholes)
So that means 48 will be intercepted and 12 will hit their target which is not enough for any strategic level damage.
Thirdly, when I will go for my attack in response, Indian aircraft have to stay away and they are only banking on SAM systems. By knocking them out like S-400 mission on 10th, whole India is vulnerable till 200 km from IB.
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Yes indeed, there is no doubt about PAF achieving Air Superiority during the may skirmish.
Hope we improve our AD like you mentioned aswell
 
Fatman17 said:
The 3rd B3 sqdn was produced for PAF but the Azerbaijan deal was given delivery priority.
I'm not sure if this was such a good idea
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ThrustVector998 said:
Yes indeed, there is no doubt about PAF achieving Air Superiority during the may skirmish.
Hope we improve our AD like you mentioned aswell
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We are but I wish we had the resources for everything. Unfortunately, the balance between offensive and defensive capabilities is not easy with procurement plans of 5th gen fighters.
But once we have them, they will act as a deterrent because then IAF aircraft are not safe anymore for even launching their stand-off weapons.
 
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