PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[AeronautIR]

But being from the QA bg yourself - why would you need an example on the ground besides eval in the operating environment to send feedback?

You have all the specifications to create the needful infrastructure. Similar to the Z-10ME in house where the first 3 Z-10 base models outlined the serious deficiencies in the system which were then updated for ME. That single example now is undergoing further validation before the full batch is ordered for delivery.

For that matter the PAF personnel have been advising already what they need(based on what they have access to). The J-10Cs were obviously a super sq to help create a OCU and offset some to CCS - and what’s been learned from May 25 is being retroactively requested for the next batch.

And they while they single handedly did hold their own there were fallbacks that could have held with expected losses.

Fair enough. I guess we will see what the future holds. Let's call it a hunch but I am willing to bet we will see these plans completed by March 2028.
IYKYK

 

[PakAl]

But us document already makes clear that Pakistan will likely retire the f-16 fleet by 2040s so trying to purchase new aircraft for effiectively 10 years of service is pointless. Pakistan doesnt need to buy new f-16s to keep using that infrastructure. I would argue for getting more used airframes for cheap or upgrading more of our fleet but simply getting new airframes because we have the infrastructure already is just sunk cost fallacy in effect. The paf must look big picture and for decades to come not for immediate short term benefit. You say Pakistan will never get the most mordern version of equipment from us if so why not go to china which has much better record of giving us equipment closer to its most mordern even if they dont give us the top of line stuff they give us 2nd best the us only gives us the bare minimum

The Mirages/F7PGs were supposed to be retired by 2020s but we still use them, F16s may stay till 2050s, the block 18s or if paf can buy some good airframes or even new ones they can last us a while, they certainly need upgrades. Paf probably knows this, hopefully they will get the upgraded ones or Usa allows Turkish upgrades.

 

[Oscar]

Fair enough. I guess we will see what the future holds. Let's call it a hunch but I am willing to bet we will see these plans completed by March 2028.
IYKYK

Being of Pakistani origin I will try not to say Inshallah because phir tu program warh gaya.

But 2028 is actually a timeline that has been agreed well on here - compared to folks here who were claiming that J-35s have already arrived.

Speaking of that - another strange happening - back in 2002 I was sitting with a close relative in the Navy and talking to them about FC-1 and our plane - and he claimed he has seen it flying.

اب بحث بھی نہیں کر سکتا اور مان بھی نہیں سکتا تھا


پھر جب ایک سال باد وہ اڑا تو میں نے پھر پوچھنے کی جرت کی تو کہا ہاں
اسی کو میں نے فلاں بیس پر اڑتے دیکھا تھا

Mysteries of Pakistan military projects

 

[JamD]

People pay tax in Pakistan?

Very much so. Pakistan has a very regressive tax system where you're paying sales tax on everything and basically any transaction. The salaried class and the businessmen all pay taxes also. Don't forget that all of these loans on Pakistan are taxes on our children and their children. The people who don't pay taxes are the richest top 0.1% agriculturilists, real estate people, bureaucrats, generals, judges, criminals. Of course they want us all to believe WE don't pay taxes so we don't topple the system.

So yeah, the state needs to be accountable for all of the tax money they spend without any questions.

Sorry for the thread derailment. Will not reply here anymore for this.

 

[Oscar]

P

Very much so. Pakistan has a very regressive tax system where you're paying sales tax on everything and basically any transaction. The salaried class and the businessmen all pay taxes also. Don't forget that all of these loans on Pakistan are taxes on our children and their children. The people who don't pay taxes are the richest top 0.1% agriculturilists, real estate people, bureaucrats, generals, judges, criminals. Of course they want us all to believe WE don't pay taxes so we don't topple the system.

So yeah, the state needs to be accountable for all of the tax money they spend without any questions.

Sorry for the thread derailment. Will not reply here anymore for this.

i think the jab was on the overall lack of taxation rather than GST and the salaried class who pay taxes regardless.

However, the top 0.1% also really have no problem if Pakistan exists or doesn’t quite frankly - continuity is never an for them.

Either way, because of those economic issues and otherwise - you are forced to use loans for everything including the J-10. And budget out if further J-10s arrive this year or the next.

 

[AeronautIR]

Being of Pakistani origin I will try not to say Inshallah because phir tu program warh gaya.

But 2028 is actually a timeline that has been agreed well on here - compared to folks here who were claiming that J-35s have already arrived.

Speaking of that - another strange happening - back in 2002 I was sitting with a close relative in the Navy and talking to them about FC-1 and our plane - and he claimed he has seen it flying.

اب بحث بھی نہیں کر سکتا اور مان بھی نہیں سکتا تھا


پھر جب ایک سال باد وہ اڑا تو میں نے پھر پوچھنے کی جرت کی تو کہا ہاں
اسی کو میں نے فلاں بیس پر اڑتے دیکھا تھا

Mysteries of Pakistan military projects

Well, if it has already arrived, then it must be invisible instead of stealth.

I can relate to this incident.
When I was a cadet, I was told by my uncle who was an Army officer that fighter pilots can fly only for 5 years.
After that, they are unable to deal with the stress of flying due to something called Geeezz.
Being a low EQ guy, I humbly suggested that it is highly unlikely and rest is history. My parents thrashed me after hearing from him:
آپ نے یہ تربیت کی ہے؟ تمیز ہی نہیں اس کو بڑوں سے بات کرنے کی۔

 

[PakAl]

Buying new F-16 fighters is foolish. Pakistan must put full effort in acquiring J-35 fighters. The air force already has access to JF-17 and J-10C. The only argument that makes sense is to upgrade the existing F-16 fleet.

Older F16s definitely need upgrading, will the Usa allow it, its also possible Usa may want to sell Pakistan new F16s and only then allow upgrades. F16V will be good to buy, Pakistan can use them to replace older F16s models and keep the planes till 2050s. Ofcourse what makes the most sense is 100 J10CEs and 40odd J35s (do we have the funds to buy 100?).

 

[Oscar]

:
آپ نے یہ تربیت کی ہے؟ تمیز ہی نہیں اس کو بڑوں سے بات کرنے کی۔

God knows how much damage has been done to Pakistan because of this pathetic cultural trait

 

[mythbuster]

This. I think MES ought to have got the approvals. If not, the works BOOs should atleast have been submitted to AHQ by now.

As an example, i know another AD system would be arriving soon. The corresponding prerequisite works, unit relocation, revision of establishment etc is already in progress.

@HemlockKhalid/AeronautIR

You need to brush up your information... things are moving a bit faster...i hate visit of vigos .

 

[Bratva]

Well for that matter I have over the years stated here plainly that I knew about 3 Chinese stealth aircraft back from 2011 from a former CPD JF-17.

Now that he’s still in trouble for other reasons altogether has nothing to do with me

However, I do suggest @HemlockKhalid/AeronautIR to be aware of ambitious Air Intel and other idaray fellows looking to land some cherries and paint an entire story altogether.

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If I assume correctly the CPD sahab was same one who signed J-10C deal. J-10 was curse for many like CPD sahab,bajwa, Imran Khan

 

[Bratva]

Why?

Let's just say hypothetically that a secret deal was signed for a follow on order during PM Shehbaz Sharif's visit to China on 4 June 2024, China could produce 10 J-10Cs in 2025 and another 10 in 2026.

But that's if a deal has already been signed.

President Zardari was briefed on AVIC’s advanced capabilities, including the J-10 fighter jet, the co-production of the JF-17 Thunder with Pakistan, as well as progress in the J-20 stealth 5th-generation fighter aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, fully automated units, and integrated command-and-control systems for modern multi-domain operations.

 

[mythbuster]

President Zardari was briefed on AVIC’s advanced capabilities, including the J-10 fighter jet, the co-production of the JF-17 Thunder with Pakistan, as well as progress in the J-20 stealth 5th-generation fighter aircraft, unmanned aerial vehicles, fully automated units, and integrated command-and-control systems for modern multi-domain operations.

Look at zardari sahib's boots , thanks God he didn't go for white.

 

[Oscar]

If I assume correctly the CPD sahab was same one who signed J-10C deal. J-10 was curse for many like CPD sahab,bajwa, Imran Khan

No
Just paperwork problems

 

[mythbuster]

Very much so. Pakistan has a very regressive tax system where you're paying sales tax on everything and basically any transaction. The salaried class and the businessmen all pay taxes also. Don't forget that all of these loans on Pakistan are taxes on our children and their children. The people who don't pay taxes are the richest top 0.1% agriculturilists, real estate people, bureaucrats, generals, judges, criminals. Of course they want us all to believe WE don't pay taxes so we don't topple the system.

So yeah, the state needs to be accountable for all of the tax money they spend without any questions.

Sorry for the thread derailment. Will not reply here anymore for this.

Corruption money shall be legitimate and taxable....that will solve our problems.

 

[Corax]

Very much so. Pakistan has a very regressive tax system where you're paying sales tax on everything and basically any transaction. The salaried class and the businessmen all pay taxes also. Don't forget that all of these loans on Pakistan are taxes on our children and their children. The people who don't pay taxes are the richest top 0.1% agriculturilists, real estate people, bureaucrats, generals, judges, criminals. Of course they want us all to believe WE don't pay taxes so we don't topple the system.

So yeah, the state needs to be accountable for all of the tax money they spend without any questions.

Sorry for the thread derailment. Will not reply here anymore for this.

A large part of the economy isn't taxed or even recorded. Digitalisation and moving away from cash payments would help to include a larger part of the population into the formal economy where it can be recorded and taxed, as well as reducing fraud and corruption. I know of hardly anyone outside the large cities who pay any form of tax, but then again they don't get much in return from the government in the form of services or support.