PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[SABRE]

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It all sounds absurd. There is no way for Chinese engineers to shutdown systems in any country's F-16. There is no way any country would provide access to their F-16s to China - definitely not Singapore. There would have been a huge diplomatic uproar in the US over this. To the best of my knowledge, Singapore has F-15SG but no F-16SG. They have F-16 Block 52+ C/D. Finally, I am also not aware of air exercise between Singapore and China.

 

[Cesur]

China is way above a thing India has or can have ...They are superior by all metrics but their military is 80% primed to fight and defend south china sea ie USA Japan Australia etc ...

As for Pakistan right now India is better equipped and numerically superior
In many ways not just Rafales but s400 barak 8 Spyder new mrsam Much broader range of radars satalites AFNET Comms system drones like predator Apaches P8 posedions

India has around ten times Pakistan resources annually and this will mean better broader range on investments...

Pakistan may get j31 but reality it's best part of a decade away and even then realistically how many

As for kaan don't hold your breath because turkey are about to order Typhoons from Germany as we speak that says it all it's ten years away

10 years is long long time in economics and financial muscle
Right now Indian gdp at 4 trillion means a defense budget of 75/80 billion a year ..
By 2035 when your j31 have arrived and fully integrated or two fully operating squadrons with work shops in PAC in your own country India will be spending close to 150/180 billion. A year on defense
The options to counter J31 will be better financially and the fifth generation projects in n France UK and India will be mature so
Amca
FACV France
Tempest UK
Su57 mature Russia

Are all good u
Options if Pakistan has 30/40/50 fighters it's fine I suspect India will be ordering over 250 Amca and other fifth generation fighters combined

Ultimately India had good options over Pakistan so nothing worries them too much long term.

J-31s will be delivered to PAF anywhere between 1-3 years. There is an overwhelming consensus of this estimate by pretty much everyone who follows the program. Not sure where you got 10 years from! If the PAF is making J-31 acquisition publicly known you can bet it's not something they usually do.

Simply put PAF is better trained and has better eco system. It's no longer a defensive force. It has evolved to go on offence. The problem with you Indians is you are too proud and celebrate too quickly. Till this day and years ahead you have no answer qualitatively and quantitively to PAF's electronic warfare platforms like the Saab Erieye. They literally decimated your Air Force on Feb 27 and since then PAF has acquired more of them. Also not sure if India will be so much "superior" in fighter fleet when its current squadron numbers have diminished to 1965 levels. You may spend a lot of money buying off the shelf but time is not on your side as those Westerners have Israel and Ukraine to support first in the supply chain.

Those Apaches are meaningless when the opponent has MANPADS and superior electronic warfare capabilities. As for MQ-9 I think people have lost count how many have crashed due to technical issues or because it was shot down. It's not as effective of a platform people think it is. Not necessarily everything "American" is good. You have see Boeing's reputation lately to realize this. To compare with what India has, PAF is much superior in drone technology. It has Akinci, TB-2, Wing Long and Shahpar drones and it won't surprise me if it even gets Kizilelma too down the line.

I'd say the only good purchase IAF has to date is the Rafale but then it has been disappointing to say the least with respect to how many it has procured. This is not something PAF will be too concerned. There is always an answer to this. PAF had over a dozen J-10s delivered during COVID armed with PL-15s. It's a much more potent platform than what the PAF currently has including the F-16 Block 52s. There is a slight edge by Indians but not by much and certainly won't once the J-31 start delivering. The stealth capabilities along with PAF's electric warfare platforms would get the job done including targeting the S-400 system which would be no good when it won't be able to see it on radar. Additionally, the Army's Fatah MLRS are inducted primarily to overwhelm and destroy the air defence systems So it's a double whammy for Indians.

 

[MastanKhan]

China is way above a thing India has or can have ...They are superior by all metrics but their military is 80% primed to fight and defend south china sea ie USA Japan Australia etc ...

As for Pakistan right now India is better equipped and numerically superior
In many ways not just Rafales but s400 barak 8 Spyder new mrsam Much broader range of radars satalites AFNET Comms system drones like predator Apaches P8 posedions

India has around ten times Pakistan resources annually and this will mean better broader range on investments...

Pakistan may get j31 but reality it's best part of a decade away and even then realistically how many

As for kaan don't hold your breath because turkey are about to order Typhoons from Germany as we speak that says it all it's ten years away

10 years is long long time in economics and financial muscle
Right now Indian gdp at 4 trillion means a defense budget of 75/80 billion a year ..
By 2035 when your j31 have arrived and fully integrated or two fully operating squadrons with work shops in PAC in your own country India will be spending close to 150/180 billion. A year on defense
The options to counter J31 will be better financially and the fifth generation projects in n France UK and India will be mature so
Amca
FACV France
Tempest UK
Su57 mature Russia

Are all good u
Options if Pakistan has 30/40/50 fighters it's fine I suspect India will be ordering over 250 Amca and other fifth generation fighters combined

Ultimately India had good options over Pakistan so nothing worries them too much long term.

Hi,

I think that you got carried away a tad bit---. India's gdp means nothing in front of its poverty.

Americans are desperately building up india against china---and on the inside they know that india may not contain pakistan by itself---.

 

[BP2]

India doesn't have many options. It hasn't developed the Tejas let alone AMCA. Russian tech is inferior and there is always a risk of sanctions and supply chain issues. It also can't get F-35s from the U.S due to S-400s. So it has no option but to go to France and pay a premium for 4.5 Gen Rafales. China already has J-16s and J-20s deployed near you and it has already begun working on 6th Gen program. China to dooor ke baat hai how will you counter Pakistan's acquisitions of J-10Cs, J-31s and Kaan?

Where a premium Rafale ?
Rafale dry cost is in the 90 - 100 $ million, where a SH18 is 85-90$ million.
The price we all see, in the 200$million per unit, is with a full range of weapons, trainings systems, spares, some time air base accomodation, some time specific developments (something nearly impossible with US bird, except for Israel)...

Rafale is just a little bit costier, mainly due to the lower size effect.

 

[SteppeWolff]

how to induct the Tejas Mk2

It's more probable they gonna scrap it and move onto something else, and repeat. Kinda feel sad for the Indians.

 

[Cesur]

Your so far removed from ground reality typical fan boy stuff. Let me correct you and bring you back to reality

Firstly this notion that Pak is always far ahead is a myth
Over kargil your air force did not engage the mirages for fear of no bvrs your f16 had none at the time

Over balakort air strike your Awacs and radars failed to detect the mirage 2000 air strike the humiliation. Led you to respond with swift resort

You claim.to be far ahead yet even tonight your Airforce is 40% obselete IE over 100 fifty years old mirages and F7s


.but where you post is completely wrong is my final point you claimed that India is relying on the west for modernisation you could not be more wrong if you tried ...
The truth is the opposite
Your mentioned eco system in Pakistan ...what eco system is this then ?
You mean Chengdu in china I think ...

India has inducted nuclear powered subs aircraft carriers destroyers already mbrl artillary
Over Two billion dollars of exports of brahmos akash sam.pinka mbrl and pralaay cruise missles as we speak



Going to air power alone
Afnet Comms system
Akash and barak Sam's
Astra bvrs
Rudram.stand off missiles
Our own Aesa radars
Tejas fighters
Light attack choppers
Dhruv helicopters

India is going thru a massive build at home initiative

The Apache or predator orders and MRFA orders is the tip of the iceberg

India will spend 150 billion dollars on new hardware next decade 70% of this is Indengious Indian built systems

Back to j31 your point that it arriving in 1/3 years is comical..heck how can china sell you j31 they have not fully built it yet ...even for their military

.The Chinese have three prototypes have not even fully tested the weapons radars and maintenance workshops or set up the manufacturing factories to mass produce this jet which is essentially a naval carrier fighter

We started hearing about j10 joining Pakistan in 2010 it took 13 years to arrive even then just 20 in number

I think your set for a major disappointment on j31 arriving in 1 year did you say lol

China cannot send you a fighter it has not inducted itself yet
How can they send you something not in service with plaaf
There's no history of full service
How it networks with other fighters
How it is maintained serviced
There is no work shops maintenance centres
Even. When it ready post 2030 you need to to deliver Integrate etc

2/3 years lol lol

J-10 was not inducted back in 2010 because that was the J-10A variant. The PAF was not satisfied with its performance and also because it came with a Russian engine. Also during that same period PAF was offered F-16 Block 52s from the U.S along with some 500 AIM-120 BVR missiles. Fast forward China introduced the J-10C for export in 2019 and delivered it to the PAF during the covid-19 pandemic. It was delivered within 3 years. Like the J-10C China is marketing the J-31 for export because obviously it believes it has matured enough.

As for your comment regarding the old F-16s, actually it was the old F-16s that took down your Mig-21 and SU-30. lol

 

[TopGun786]

Your so far removed from ground reality typical fan boy stuff. Let me correct you and bring you back to reality

Firstly this notion that Pak is always far ahead is a myth
Over kargil your air force did not engage the mirages for fear of no bvrs your f16 had none at the time

Over balakort air strike your Awacs and radars failed to detect the mirage 2000 air strike the humiliation. Led you to respond with swift resort

You claim.to be far ahead yet even tonight your Airforce is 40% obselete IE over 100 fifty years old mirages and F7s


.but where you post is completely wrong is my final point you claimed that India is relying on the west for modernisation you could not be more wrong if you tried ...
The truth is the opposite
Your mentioned eco system in Pakistan ...what eco system is this then ?
You mean Chengdu in china I think ...

India has inducted nuclear powered subs aircraft carriers destroyers already mbrl artillary
Over Two billion dollars of exports of brahmos akash sam.pinka mbrl and pralaay cruise missles as we speak



Going to air power alone
Afnet Comms system
Akash and barak Sam's
Astra bvrs
Rudram.stand off missiles
Our own Aesa radars
Tejas fighters
Light attack choppers
Dhruv helicopters

India is going thru a massive build at home initiative

The Apache or predator orders and MRFA orders is the tip of the iceberg

India will spend 150 billion dollars on new hardware next decade 70% of this is Indengious Indian built systems

Back to j31 your point that it arriving in 1/3 years is comical..heck how can china sell you j31 they have not fully built it yet ...even for their military

.The Chinese have three prototypes have not even fully tested the weapons radars and maintenance workshops or set up the manufacturing factories to mass produce this jet which is essentially a naval carrier fighter

We started hearing about j10 joining Pakistan in 2010 it took 13 years to arrive even then just 20 in number

I think your set for a major disappointment on j31 arriving in 1 year did you say lol

China cannot send you a fighter it has not inducted itself yet
How can they send you something not in service with plaaf
There's no history of full service
How it networks with other fighters
How it is maintained serviced
There is no work shops maintenance centres
Even. When it ready post 2030 you need to to deliver Integrate etc

2/3 years lol lol

Too many words for basically no meaning at all.
Reminds me of a toddler babbling hard to make his parents understand that his tummy hurts.
"Failed" to detect mirages????. I don't know if it is a PAF failure when IAF mirages remained in PAF boundaries just for 20-30 seconds and even that too they were so much scared that they bolted immediately and in haste dropped all their load off target, murdering a couple of tress and a crow.
Humiliation is when PAF pounded IAF positions in illegally Indian occupied Kashmir with pin point accuracy and, in broad day light, and that too after announcing it that they will pound India.
Further more humiliation for India when her two jets (Mig-21 bison & SU30 mki) were also shot down subsequently..... Not to mention IAF helli also with entire crew whipped off.
Don't ask me to write more off topic.

 

[Hussain]

Rafale is just a little bit costier, mainly due to the lower size effect.

You mean to say, "Economies of Scale," or actually, "lack of".

Meaning, higher the number produced, lower the average per unit cost?

 

[MastanKhan]

Your so far removed from ground reality typical fan boy stuff. Let me correct you and bring you back to reality

Firstly this notion that Pak is always far ahead is a myth
Over kargil your air force did not engage the mirages for fear of no bvrs your f16 had none at the time

Over balakort air strike your Awacs and radars failed to detect the mirage 2000 air strike the humiliation. Led you to respond with swift resort

You claim.to be far ahead yet even tonight your Airforce is 40% obselete IE over 100 fifty years old mirages and F7s


.but where you post is completely wrong is my final point you claimed that India is relying on the west for modernisation you could not be more wrong if you tried ...
The truth is the opposite
Your mentioned eco system in Pakistan ...what eco system is this then ?
You mean Chengdu in china I think ...

India has inducted nuclear powered subs aircraft carriers destroyers already mbrl artillary
Over Two billion dollars of exports of brahmos akash sam.pinka mbrl and pralaay cruise missles as we speak



Going to air power alone
Afnet Comms system
Akash and barak Sam's
Astra bvrs
Rudram.stand off missiles
Our own Aesa radars
Tejas fighters
Light attack choppers
Dhruv helicopters

India is going thru a massive build at home initiative

The Apache or predator orders and MRFA orders is the tip of the iceberg

India will spend 150 billion dollars on new hardware next decade 70% of this is Indengious Indian built systems

Back to j31 your point that it arriving in 1/3 years is comical..heck how can china sell you j31 they have not fully built it yet ...even for their military

.The Chinese have three prototypes have not even fully tested the weapons radars and maintenance workshops or set up the manufacturing factories to mass produce this jet which is essentially a naval carrier fighter

We started hearing about j10 joining Pakistan in 2010 it took 13 years to arrive even then just 20 in number

I think your set for a major disappointment on j31 arriving in 1 year did you say lol

China cannot send you a fighter it has not inducted itself yet
How can they send you something not in service with plaaf
There's no history of full service
How it networks with other fighters
How it is maintained serviced
There is no work shops maintenance centres
Even. When it ready post 2030 you need to to deliver Integrate etc

2/3 years lol lol

Hi,

Your security force failed to detect 9/11 happening.
Implication of entering into the vietnam war
Prior to that was Pearl harbor.

Son---your sh-it don't smell any better---.

 

[BP2]

higher the number produced, lower the average per unit cost?

Of course.
The R&D costs are shared on a higher number, and you can invest on better production machines and tools. Jets are like airliners or cars : the bigger is the production the lower is the cost.
USA air force itself give Boeing or LM or... a massive serial impact.

 

[studsmart]

it would be interesting to see j10[future version] with ws15 and CFT

 

[Bentley777]

@Deino is PLA working on j10d or no j10c was the last huge upgrade in j10 project series and they will move onto new air platform upgrades like j16 or j20. Second same question in missile domain is they are working to improve pl 15 and pl 12 etc to introduce their new block.

 

[Deino]

@Deino is PLA working on j10d or no j10c was the last huge upgrade in j10 project series and they will move onto new air platform upgrades like j16 or j20. Second same question in missile domain is they are working to improve pl 15 and pl 12 etc to introduce their new block.

Actually I don‘t know. There are rumours since years about a stealthy J-10D but IMO this is more a hoax and less likely than the Yeti or Loch Ness monster Nessi!

The latest variant noticed was one carrying a unique pod under the centerline station and with the gun removed and some say it is a testbed similar to the US VISTA F-16 or a dedicated sensor pod … however it hasn’t been seen in service yet and in principle is still a regular Batch 08 J-10C.

 

[Michael]

is PLA working on j10d or no j10c was the last huge upgrade in j10 project series and they will move onto new air platform upgrades like j16 or j20. Second same question in missile domain is they are working to improve pl 15 and pl 12 etc to introduce their new block.

Actually I don‘t know. There are rumours since years about a stealthy J-10D but IMO this is more a hoax and less likely than the Yeti or Loch Ness monster Nessi!
The latest variant noticed was one carrying a unique pod under the centerline station and with the gun removed and some say it is a testbed similar to the US VISTA F-16 or a dedicated sensor pod … however it hasn’t been seen in service yet and in principle is still a regular Batch 08 J-10C.

Until now, only the code “J16D” has been officially announced and confirmed for use by official organizations.

The code “J15D” is still a civilian designation, and the official authorities have only confirmed that this aircraft exists and has been equipped on PLAN aircraft carriers. However, the code “J15D” is not used by official organizations.

The code “J10D” is also an act of civilian speculation. The leaked pictures so far show the J10C in both EW pod and belly-modified modes. The J10C with EW pods should not use any additional codes. The belly-improved version of the J10C should use “J10CD” instead of “J10D” as a rule.

IMO, PLAAF has always favored heavy fighters. Currently the annual production of J10C is about half that of J20 and CAC has not made any move to expand the J10C production capacity, which is completely at odds with conventional wisdom. Analyzing from these circumstances, the subsequent J10C is mainly used to develop the foreign trade market. Whether a major version upgrade or a separate electronic warfare version follows depends on the foreign trade market. If there is a demand in the foreign trade market, it is not ruled out that CAC will launch a dedicated EW fighter for the J10 series. However, it is more likely to use the “J10CD” for export.

 

[ghazi52]