PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion
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HRK
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
SAAB has dual link Link-16 and Link-17 all Chinese aircraft and Miraj jets use link 17 and then there is a intermediary link which act as a bridge between the 2 links and make all eastern origin assets and western origin assets (like F-16) talk to each other in Near Real Time.
This seamless integration of all the eastern and western origin assets (including Ground and airborne Radar) into one system is achieved through the ground based DATA integration engine of Swedish origin which is part of SAAB AEW&C system and it relay back all the DATA integrated into one system which provide one complete picture of Battle space to the connected nodes, so yes you are correct one never guess
- which of the air or ground based asset has deducted the enemy first
- which of the air or ground based assets would keep the track of the enemy
- which of the air or ground based eastern or western asset would fire at the enemy
- which of the asset would guide the weapon to it's intended target.
So current arrangements of Data link of Pakistan is robust and performed excellently in actual wat but with the passage of time time new technologies are emerging and PAF is bound to become fifth gen Air force therefore it must invest in new gen of DATA LINK system which offer higher speed and data transmission.
ARMalik
Trusted Member
"ground based DATA integration engine of Swedish origin"
In my view, this is where PAF needs more redundancy. With Chinese asssitance,
-rather than relying on Sweden, create a local data integration system with upward compatibility to 5G and 6G jets.
-create ground, air and satellites versions of these systems to ensure the ground based system is not knocked out by the enemy via various means.
-Due to intermediary link there would be slight information delays in milli-seconds and hence there is "Near Real time" rather than "Real Time" information. Steps need to be taken to change 'Near Real Time' of some assets to "Real Time".
In my view, this is where PAF needs more redundancy. With Chinese asssitance,
-rather than relying on Sweden, create a local data integration system with upward compatibility to 5G and 6G jets.
-create ground, air and satellites versions of these systems to ensure the ground based system is not knocked out by the enemy via various means.
-Due to intermediary link there would be slight information delays in milli-seconds and hence there is "Near Real time" rather than "Real Time" information. Steps need to be taken to change 'Near Real Time' of some assets to "Real Time".
Quwa
Research Partner
The bigger issue isn't that the Erieye's can use Link-17. In fact, they were always designed for proprietary TDLs.
The real question is this: If the PAF used CEC to enable the Erieye to guide PL-15/Es, then what TDL was used for that? The implication is that either a Chinese TDL was introduced at some point, OR Link-17's been significantly updated.
The Saab Erieye was - and still is - literally marketed to carry proprietary TDLs. If the user doesn't have their own TDL, then Saab will basically build one for them (which is one of the potential terms of the Colombian Gripen deal).
Reichmarshal
Trusted Member
all ZDK are grounded and not in active service with PAF for a few years now. The prob is not with the equipment installed but with the actual ac. PAF has been actively looking to remove the equipment from the aircraft and place it in one of the couple of narrow-body airliners that it operates.
Let me make it clear for our Chinese friends here that most, if not all, PL-15s launched by the J-10/JF-17 were actively guided by the SAAB 2000 Erieye through a locally developed tactical data link system known as Link 17.
Link 17 connects all PAF assets, including the SAM batteries.
There is no back end link between the swedes and the Chinese. The swedes, like all manufacturers, aren't that generous to share source codes with anyone.
After the kamra attack and with the subsequent rebuild of two partially destroyed (varying degree) Saab Erieye ac, which saab had written off. PAC gained such insight into the ac and the electronics that in the words of one PAC tech, "that with a little hard work, finance and effort, PAC can manufacture its own awacs". Such was the extent of the knowledge gained.
In short, PAC has saab by the balls.
But its a win-win for all as the sales for saab erieye Er and the global eye has seen an exponential jump with the latest customer being france.
(if that does not tell u anything then nothing will)
Let me make it clear for our Chinese friends here that most, if not all, PL-15s launched by the J-10/JF-17 were actively guided by the SAAB 2000 Erieye through a locally developed tactical data link system known as Link 17.
Link 17 connects all PAF assets, including the SAM batteries.
There is no back end link between the swedes and the Chinese. The swedes, like all manufacturers, aren't that generous to share source codes with anyone.
After the kamra attack and with the subsequent rebuild of two partially destroyed (varying degree) Saab Erieye ac, which saab had written off. PAC gained such insight into the ac and the electronics that in the words of one PAC tech, "that with a little hard work, finance and effort, PAC can manufacture its own awacs". Such was the extent of the knowledge gained.
In short, PAC has saab by the balls.
But its a win-win for all as the sales for saab erieye Er and the global eye has seen an exponential jump with the latest customer being france.
(if that does not tell u anything then nothing will)
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impossible unfortunately
gangsta_rap
Trusted Member
Why do I have a hard time believing this?
it depends on how you're describing guidance. If you're referring to CEC then no, impossible
because its simply untrue.
I rebuilt a completely damaged car for fun one summer. I cant build one from scratch.
PAC lacks the testing, integration, wind tunnels etc etc facilities. Also the experience blah blah.
If PAC could undertake major modifications like whats needed for AEW, Sea Sultan would be built in Kamra, not South Africa
Reichmarshal
Trusted Member
i have given info to the extent that can be given on an open forum.
baki the possibilities we saw in 2019, n then again from the 6th to the 10th of May.
Wasay i was the first person to break the news of the grounding of the ZDK, back in the day.
MastanKhan
VIP Member
Reichmarshal
Trusted Member
Another thing, other than the "certain capabilities" that Pakistan had asked for from our Chinese friends, as a precaution. The Chinese were in the dark till the 7th and as the operation was progressing and as the iaf aircraft had been shot down. The Chinese ambassador was informed, who, along with the air attache, in the early hrs of the morning, rushed to the PAF control room, where they were informed of wt had gone down and he subsequently informed Beijing, after which our Chinese friends decided to come all out in our support.
Oscar
Moderator
Has to do with Platform experience as well.
PAC has fixed the dents and paint on the Saab but needs the full avionics set from Saab for repairs.
They are a good rebuild shop - did it for the viper which took the JDAM - but without the facilities they cannot play around with aerodynamics too much.
That was the reality check with Azm.
That being said the Erieye is starting to take on “F-16ness” in terms of how the PAF loves the platform and its “on/off” ease of use.
As far as CEC is concerned - Link-17 has all the expansion available but Pk friends north haven’t been that forthcoming on it yet.
They want to push their kit
i think me saying id be skeptical would be an understatement.
Id be willing to bet everything i have that LINK 17 is CEC capable.
physics is physics. engineering is engineering.
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