PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[RajaBaja]

Public information in China states that Pakistan has four HQ9 and eight HQ16 missile systems. Each HQ9 system has 16 rounds of ammunition (with four launch vehicles), while each HQ16 system has 24 rounds, for a total of 256 rounds. However, public information indicates that the HQ9 system is expensive, costing $200 million per system. If this price is true, Pakistan really cannot afford it.

What is simultaneous targeting capability for Pakistani version of HQ-9 and HQ-16?

What's the cost of HQ-19? and its simultaneous targeting capability? I have its tracking range and other data, not targeting capability.

Pakistan can afford a few strategic systems, whether $200 million or more. But they need to cover a larger threat envelop, for example, like its stated 100 Brahmos per salvo type of a situation.

I think based on our economy, we'll go into a big buying drive in 2027. From 2028 onwards, our economy will grow year on year, resulting in a couple of billion dollars defense budget increase for next few years

 

[ahtan_china]

Old jet, new tricks: J-10C downs stealth fighter in combat drill with integrated system

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[Yasser76]

That is what the Chinese members @Michael @Shanlung @nang2 @chinasun are trying to explain to us again and again. China has a LOT of catching up to do. China's own needs are so massive that for the next ten years at the least, the Chinese manufacturing is going to be busy with producing weapons ONLY for their needs.

They will offer some weapons for foreign buyers but not so much that they will risk their internal orders to be delayed.

Take an example, whether one likes it or not, China is now in a direct competition with the US. There may even be a war on Taiwan between the two. So can China go to war with less military, top end aircrafts, and weapon systems than the US? No, it will lose. So that's their current industry focus.

Just imagine, US air force along has 2500+ combat jets, US Navy also has 3700 aircraft our of which half should be combat jets, then you have US marines also with about 400-500 combat jets of various kind. So China is facing a super power with over 5000 combat jets. Additionally, there are around 5000+ RESERVES. So China has to estimate and war game this massive number. Of course, not all of these will be in a fight but what if a real war starts and goes long term?

So in my opinion, China needs around 4000 combat jets out of which, at least 2000+ will be 5th gen. China still can't beat the US in numbers and reserves because the US has been building reserves since 1980's for a war with Russia. But from what I am seeing is, China wants to outpace the older inventory of US systems by advance TECH. That's why we see J-20, J-35, J-36 and J-50 being in pipes. China is building a future airforce and navy. While the US has a large number of older platforms compared to what China is building.

@Yasser76 @Meengla @pwfi @PAKISTANFOREVER @corven @Pakistan Space Agency @LX1111 your input on above?

Well what 7th May taught us is that it is just not about platforms and numbers, China's strength is also in much we cannot see

EW, Cyber, Sats, Beidou etc

 

[RajaBaja]

Well what 7th May taught us is that it is just not about platforms and numbers, China's strength is also in much we cannot see

EW, Cyber, Sats, Beidou etc

I disagree with it. The numbers had it's own strength. If we only had JF-17 block II, would we be this happy today? Or let's say had only 10 J-10C's with majority needing maintenance at the time of attack?

So proper numbers are everything, when you have a proportionate response, even 1:2 like we did. Then you can combine the tech, tactics and platforms and really put out a well orchestrated move.

 

[Yasser76]

I disagree with it. The numbers had it's own strength. If we only had JF-17 block II, would we be this happy today? Or let's say had only 10 J-10C's with majority needing maintenance at the time of attack?

So proper numbers are everything, when you have a proportionate response, even 1:2 like we did. Then you can combine the tech, tactics and platforms and really put out a well orchestrated move.

Not saying numbers are not important, but if you look at what USN/USAF can bring to the fight, China has actually surpassed US already in high end fighters. 5/6th Gen it is on verge of surpassing

 

[Scorpio]

I do not recommend Pakistan to buy more J10C, the military expenditure should be spent on its shortcomings, for example, buying KJ500, buying more air defense systems
Next time there is a conflict, India will attack the airport with a large number of BrahMos
Building a complete air defense system is crucial
Of course, don't forget to prepare enough quick-drying cement and prefabricated steel plates.

PAF will never limits any successful platform to one squadron level...

See PAF history...

 

[Scorpio]

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In fact, if you understand this video, you can basically understand how powerful the domestic version of the J10C radar is. And how powerful the KJ500 radar performance is.

KJ 500 or any advance Chinese AWACS are definitely need of hour for PAF ...

PAF must working on it ...

 

[Scorpio]

What is simultaneous targeting capability for Pakistani version of HQ-9 and HQ-16?

What's the cost of HQ-19? and its simultaneous targeting capability? I have its tracking range and other data, not targeting capability.

Pakistan can afford a few strategic systems, whether $200 million or more. But they need to cover a larger threat envelop, for example, like its stated 100 Brahmos per salvo type of a situation.

I think based on our economy, we'll go into a big buying drive in 2027. From 2028 onwards, our economy will grow year on year, resulting in a couple of billion dollars defense budget increase for next few years

We are not sure ... Indian will remain quite till then .. i mean post 2027-28

These might any mis adventure in coming year or so .. to counter humiliation they face this time

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

We are not sure ... Indian will remain quite till then .. i mean post 2027-28

These might any mis adventure in coming year or so .. to counter humiliation they face this time

I think after Operation Bunyan-um-Marsoos, India is too darpoke, especially it's military.

With pinpoint accuracy Pakistani artillery obliterated Indian military posts in Indian Occupied Kashmir. Where was the Indian artillery?

 

[Scorpio]

I think after Operation Bunyan-um-Marsoos, India is too darpoke, especially it's military.

With pinpoint accuracy Pakistani artillery obliterated Indian military posts in Indian Occupied Kashmir. Where was the Indian artillery?

Yes they are DarPok , look these politics and elections campaigns all revolves around Pakistan distraction dream ..

This the are internationally humiliated...

So they can't stay quiet for long ..

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Yes they are DarPok , look these politics and elections campaigns all revolves around Pakistan distraction dream ..

This the are internationally humiliated...

So they can't stay quiet for long ..

What can they do when their military chiefs are moaning and whining in foreign capitals that they were up against 4 countries?

On top of that, their military was forced to wear bangles by the Hindu Extremist Government. So unfair.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[Meengla]

That is what the Chinese members @Michael @Shanlung @nang2 @chinasun are trying to explain to us again and again. China has a LOT of catching up to do. China's own needs are so massive that for the next ten years at the least, the Chinese manufacturing is going to be busy with producing weapons ONLY for their needs.

They will offer some weapons for foreign buyers but not so much that they will risk their internal orders to be delayed.

Take an example, whether one likes it or not, China is now in a direct competition with the US. There may even be a war on Taiwan between the two. So can China go to war with less military, top end aircrafts, and weapon systems than the US? No, it will lose. So that's their current industry focus.

Just imagine, US air force along has 2500+ combat jets, US Navy also has 3700 aircraft our of which half should be combat jets, then you have US marines also with about 400-500 combat jets of various kind. So China is facing a super power with over 5000 combat jets. Additionally, there are around 5000+ RESERVES. So China has to estimate and war game this massive number. Of course, not all of these will be in a fight but what if a real war starts and goes long term?

So in my opinion, China needs around 4000 combat jets out of which, at least 2000+ will be 5th gen. China still can't beat the US in numbers and reserves because the US has been building reserves since 1980's for a war with Russia. But from what I am seeing is, China wants to outpace the older inventory of US systems by advance TECH. That's why we see J-20, J-35, J-36 and J-50 being in pipes. China is building a future airforce and navy. While the US has a large number of older platforms compared to what China is building.

@Yasser76 @Meengla @pwfi @PAKISTANFOREVER @corven @Pakistan Space Agency @LX1111 your input on above?

Good post.
If any country can afford to sell highly advanced military hardware in large quantity then it is only China due to its manufacturing capacity. However, to slightly differ from you, I don't foresee a hot war involving China against India or America in next several years. So China CAN afford to sell weapons in large quantities while still remaining powerful military force. I don't think any other country comes close to that--not even America unless there is mass mobilization along World War II lines. Forget Russia: They better be protecting Kremlin itself pretty soon.

 

[RajaBaja]

Good post.
If any country can afford to sell highly advanced military hardware in large quantity then it is only China due to its manufacturing capacity. However, to slightly differ from you, I don't foresee a hot war involving China against India or America in next several years. So China CAN afford to sell weapons in large quantities while still remaining powerful military force. I don't think any other country comes close to that--not even America unless there is mass mobilization along World War II lines. Forget Russia: They better be protecting Kremlin itself pretty soon.

The US has 11 active aircraft carriers, nearly 5000+ combat aircraft. Can anyone tell me when they used even half of these in a war? WWII excluded.

You don't prepare thinking "if" or "when" you might go to war. You prepare to go to war at anytime and to beat your adversary's strength, or have an even deterrence.

No one on this planet can predict when US - China will go to war. If you think China can take it easy and sell a couple hundred jets to foreign air forces to make some quick dollars, while putting its own national security at risk, I think that's not practical.

China has US forces + Japan and South Korea confirmed, and now Australia and India to be worried of, to counter in case. How could China possibly take it easy? They will take it easy and become a military hardware export when they know they match every one of these foes in terms of relative force. That's far in the future. Need to build nearly 2500 more jets for that level to be achieved.

 

[Meengla]

The US has 11 active aircraft carriers, nearly 5000+ combat aircraft. Can anyone tell me when they used even half of these in a war? WWII excluded.
You don't prepare thinking "if" or "when" you might go to war. You prepare to go to war at anytime and to beat your adversary's strength, or have an even deterrence.
No one on this planet can predict when US - China will go to war. If you think China can take it easy and sell a couple hundred jets to foreign air forces to make some quick dollars, while putting its own national security at risk, I think that's not practical.
China has US forces + Japan and South Korea confirmed, and now Australia and India to be worried of, to counter in case. How could China possibly take it easy? They will take it easy and become a military hardware export when they know they match every one of these foes in terms of relative force. That's far in the future. Need to build nearly 2500 more jets for that level to be achieved.

You are right that no one can predict what's going to happen but it is my understanding that Americans are not going to a hot war against China even if China today takes over Taiwan. Just 13 American marines dead at the Kabul Airport in 2021 was a huge impact; this country has no appetite for wars, not even for Israel when you see that Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson, Marjorie Tayler Greene, who are uber MAGA, are questioning Israel, on top of a significant liberals in the Democratic Party.
Forget about foreign wars like the 2003 invasion of Iraq. In fact, if a NY Times article of a few months ago is to be trusted, Americans, under Trump, are seriously thinking about 'carving up' the world per the old ways into three 'spheres of influence' between America, Russia and China. And that's excellent for Pakistan!! That's why I am going to be carefully watching Trump's upcoming visit to China (in September?) with great interest.