PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[Fatman17]

Whats the delay in getting another J-10CE sq ? money ? cause J-10CE definitely proven it worth in recent Air battle so why are we not ordering another sq? or its on hold? or delayed ? or same old money issues?

No delay on the way

 

[Starlord]

No delay on the way

Any timelines given?

 

[RafaleSlayer]

Any timelines given?

There will be no timelines, no quantities, no specifics, just quite inductions and full scale preps. Element of surprise is a major factor in war strategies and outcomes.

 

[White Privilege]

No delay on the way

Next logical question. Which new missile will be inducted in place of PL-15s, since Indians now know their range and won't come any closer now?? We won't induct a new platform just to induct a new missile, right....

 

[RajaBaja]

Next logical question. Which new missile will be inducted in place of PL-15s, since Indians now know their range and won't come any closer now?? We won't induct a new platform just to induct a new missile, right....

PL-15 for now. PL-16 is a few years out. We need more J-10CE numbers!

Indians know PL-15's range, so they remained 150-200 KM away from the border post first air battle. I believe Indian air force may be out of the fight for direct combat. They don't want a repeat of 7-0.

Next war or conflict will be a Brahmos + S-400 + limited Navy conflict from how it seems.

 

[White Privilege]

PL-15 for now. PL-16 is a few years out. We need more J-10CE numbers!

Indians know PL-15's range, so they remained 150-200 KM away from the border post first air battle. I believe Indian air force may be out of the fight for direct combat. They don't want a repeat of 7-0.

Next war or conflict will be a Brahmos + S-400 + limited Navy conflict from how it seems.

Yes, indeed next misadventure by Indians will involve long range missiles and SAMs to cover when PAF counter attacks. I was asking specifically about the J-10CE, whether it can field new missiles in place of PL-15 in the future, and will it need upgrades for this purpose??

 

[RajaBaja]

Yes, indeed next misadventure by Indians will involve long range missiles and SAMs to cover when PAF counter attacks. I was asking specifically about the J-10CE, whether it can field new missiles in place of PL-15 in the future, and will it need upgrades for this purpose??

It's a very complicated question. PL-16 is not PL-15 V2.0, etc. Meaning it's a new family with up to date technology set. Not just a simple upgrade to PL-15 that can just be mounted instead of existing PL-15.

It the adapters are the same between PL-15 and PL-16, and an AWACS will guide it, one can assume that it can be used readily.

However, China has started to roll these out in the field. So the integration testing is being finished at limited scale. Soon, J-10CE's will get these upgrades too.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Next war or conflict will be a Brahmos + S-400 + limited Navy conflict from how it seems.

S-400 is already a done deal as shown by the PAF with its daring ops. As for Brahmos, all sorts of "kills" have been explored with a good degree of success as per the PAF spokesperson. Further fine tuning will definitely be done. Moreover, successful tracking of their lsunchers has been accepted even by the Bharati side, so their destruction is the next step......

 

[Oscar]

PL-15 for now. PL-16 is a few years out. We need more J-10CE numbers!

Indians know PL-15's range, so they remained 150-200 KM away from the border post first air battle. I believe Indian air force may be out of the fight for direct combat. They don't want a repeat of 7-0.

Next war or conflict will be a Brahmos + S-400 + limited Navy conflict from how it seems.

Additional upgrades to Link-17 to enable further robustness in heavy EW environments along with reduced latency is needed.

The IAF is going to stick to stand off munition strikes execution under heavy SAM cover with very loose RoEs - they wont care if civilian aircraft are lost if they can blame Pakistan for it.

In addition there is a recent PN / Coast Guard exercise that should provide hints to emerging threats.

 

[ThoroughPro]

Additional upgrades to Link-17 to enable further robustness in heavy EW environments along with reduced latency is needed.

The IAF is going to stick to stand off munition strikes execution under heavy SAM cover with very loose RoEs - they wont care if civilian aircraft are lost if they can blame Pakistan for it.

In addition there is a recent PN / Coast Guard exercise that should provide hints to emerging threats.

Its a never-ending cycle new threats emerge from time to time and then you counter them and the cycle goes on. Instantaneous full scale counter offensive without delay to asses the losses and without any constraints is the only viable option for Pakistan.

 

[GriffinsRule]

@Fatman17 ... can we come back and then stick to the topic please?

By the way, does anyone know more about this or his reply?

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Im guessing kill markings

 

[RajaBaja]

S-400 is already a done deal as shown by the PAF with its daring ops. As for Brahmos, all sorts of "kills" have been explored with a good degree of success as per the PAF spokesperson. Further fine tuning will definitely be done. Moreover, successful tracking of their lsunchers has been accepted even by the Bharati side, so their destruction is the next step......

That was the past. The future conflict will be different, their doctrine shows it will be Brahmos + Drones on attack from IAF and IA, and S-400 for offensive role for SEAD against PAF jets, with Navy trying to take out a couple or more of PN ships, even OPV's, to take revenge and set score.

Their assessment is, putting IAF assets in J-10C's missile range (PL-15) brings loss worth $200 million per jet with global embarrassment. But if Brahmos costs $2 million, for one Rafale, you could build 100. With at least 25% or more hit rate on large silos. That's why they placed very big orders for Brahmos in that 67,000 crore order.

For S-400, they are getting 5 more on urgent basis. I've seen estimates as high as 20 batteries in three tiers. 1st tier near borders, 2nd tier 100 KM behind it and third tier further 100 KM behind, covering the Indian airspace in layered format even if we take out 2,3,4 batteries.

Extensive preparations are needed for the next round. The navy needs dedicated air wing with J-10C's and more VLS based ships quick.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

That was the past. The future conflict will be different, their doctrine shows it will be Brahmos + Drones on attack from IAF and IA, and S-400 for offensive role for SEAD against PAF jets, with Navy trying to take out a couple or more of PN ships, even OPV's, to take revenge and set score.

Their assessment is, putting IAF assets in J-10C's missile range (PL-15) brings loss worth $200 million per jet with global embarrassment. But if Brahmos costs $2 million, for one Rafale, you could build 100. With at least 25% or more hit rate on large silos. That's why they placed very big orders for Brahmos in that 67,000 crore order.

For S-400, they are getting 5 more on urgent basis. I've seen estimates as high as 20 batteries in three tiers. 1st tier near borders, 2nd tier 100 KM behind it and third tier further 100 KM behind, covering the Indian airspace in layered format even if we take out 2,3,4 batteries.

Extensive preparations are needed for the next round. The navy needs dedicated air wing with J-10C's and more VLS based ships quick.

IMO S-400s are easier to take care of. Concentrated attack with Brahmos will bring in wide spread retaliation too. Tons of their HVTs will be at peril too....

Next gen Turkish EW/EA (land, air, sea based) are being geared for 600km range. If the Pak side shows little more guts they can take out their AD, artillery, command centers etc....

 

[RajaBaja]

IMO S-400s are easier to take care of. Concentrated attack with Brshmos will bring in wide spread retaliation too. Tons of their HVTs will be at peril too....

Next gen Turkish EW/EA (land, air sea vased) are being geared for 600km range. It means

I understand the preparations are going on both ends. But we shouldn't be underestimating the other side.

The PAF will have a harder time the next time flying around the border. Our spear heads will be the J-10C's because they have certain equipment to avoid S-400 to a certain degree so we need these procured in more numbers urgently.

India is also going all in on Rafale because they've learned their mistakes and now want to form a two tier force for attack, Rafale and SU-30, with multi-domain connectivity like we have. Our F-7's and older Mirages need to retire. We could use stealth in the next conflict but not sure if the next conflict will take place before J-35's come. But J-10C's are much needed in numbers and for a longer duration conflict.

On AD: They are forming a 3 tier air defense architecture the one you'll see in the images below. First image is, May 2025. We took out 2 of their total 3 S-400 out, they were without air cover and had to seek a ceasefire.

They are now procuring 5 S-400's urgently. Estimated to have 20 more in a few years to create a complete 3 tier AD ring around Pakistan and 1 tier around rest of India. I'd expect them to supplement the S-400 with local built LR sams and some S-500. S-500 will come on our borders too. So you can see the images below and understand the complexity going forward.

To deal with larger Brahmos and other missile silos, we also need a similar air defense architecture. Otherwise at some point, you can overwhelm 1 or 2 batteries of AD interceptors. Plus, 3 tiers provides redundancy in case 1,2,3 systems are taken out. You are not out of air cover and can still function.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

India inducted 36 Rafails and in response, Pakistan inducted 20 J-10Cs.

Until India orders more Rafails, PAF until then may not induct any further J-10Cs?

J-10Cs are ready and available in huge numbers to be imported as and when required on a war footing, so this could allow Pakistan to concentrate on other acquisitions in the meanwhile in my opinion.