PAF J-10CE News Updates and Discussions part ll

[studsmart]

This thing about J10C and PL17 is not new. We will find out soon whether PAF got J10CP with PL17. Even if PAF does, I won't be surprised. This is an age of LO fighters. China and the USA are working on 6th-gen fighters. So J10CP with PL17 is still a 4.5+ gen combination for deterrence. It will be cutting-edge for the region but not from the provider.

 

[Ibbi32]

Give me one good reason, why would they NOT want to test their premier weapon system in a real conflict?

Because the opportunity to use said missiles agaisnt awacs and refuelers in india pak theatre is much more limited and already fulfilled by pl-15

NTM a missile like this costs a ridiculous ammount, can only be carried by j-10s and and requires specialised training. Also last time when we fought india in 2019 and asked for pl-15s for blk 3s we only got them after buying j-10s. Once again a platform PAF was initially unwilling to buy.

 

[flyingorca]

But, the Chinese engineers need to prove to their worth to their party bosses! What a better way than to see its effects in a dog-eats-dog real-life battle conditions in real-time.....

A missile functioning in a real war is better than a thousand at the inventory.....

Exactly, China needs to prove to the world that its military technology is not something to take lightly, which in itself serves as a deterrent for China.

 

[flyingorca]

The way how PL-15 gave a surprise to India with its range, PL17 is also going to surprise them when it takes out SUPER SUKHOI SU-30 MKI doing a cobra maneuver 300 KM away from border.

 

[Toxic]

The way how PL-15 gave a surprise to India with its range, PL17 is also going to surprise them when it takes out SUPER SUKHOI SU-30 MKI doing a cobra maneuver 300 KM away from border.

Using a PL-17 on a MKI is a waste for several reasons, Chances of a PL-17 hitting a fighter jet at such a long range are low, also why would they be doing a Cobra for no Reason?

 

[Corax]

Because the opportunity to use said missiles agaisnt awacs and refuelers in india pak theatre is much more limited and already fulfilled by pl-15

NTM a missile like this costs a ridiculous ammount, can only be carried by j-10s and and requires specialised training. Also last time when we fought india in 2019 and asked for pl-15s for blk 3s we only got them after buying j-10s. Once again a platform PAF was initially unwilling to buy.

That's like saying we didn't need PL15s because we already had AIM120s. And it's odd that the non-export variant of the PL15 was rushed to the PAF just before the May conflict, don't you think? I mean why was there a need, after all the PAF already had the PL15E, surely that was enough wasn't it? The J10 was always in the pipeline, the PAF didn't acquire it until it was mature enough. Are PAF pilots beyond "specialised training"?

 

[flyingorca]

Using a PL-17 on a MKI is a waste for several reasons, Chances of a PL-17 hitting a fighter jet at such a long range are low, also why would they be doing a Cobra for no Reason?

Sir its a joke.

 

[Ibbi32]

That's like saying we didn't need PL15s because we already had AIM120s. And it's odd that the non-export variant of the PL15 was rushed to the PAF just before the May conflict, don't you think? I mean why was there a need, after all the PAF already had the PL15E, surely that was enough wasn't it? The J10 was always in the pipeline, the PAF didn't acquire it until it was mature enough. Are PAF pilots beyond "specialised training"?

Pl-17 is not a successor to pl-15 please understand this difference first

 

[Corax]

Pl-17 is not a successor to pl-15 please understand this difference first

Never said it was, who said that? It's a tool for a specific purpose and role.

 

[Ibbi32]

Never said it was, who said that? It's a tool for a specific purpose and role.

Them why are you so adamant PAF will inevitably get it if they don’t have any current requirements for it? Your comparison to aim 120 and pl-15 also makes it seem that this is just a logical upgrade when it really isnt. Id be happy to see these in PAF service but they likely wont be coming. Pl-16s are much more interesting and likely upgrade imo but we arent getting those before j-35s

 

[Corax]

Them why are you so adamant PAF will inevitably get it if they don’t have any current requirements for it? Your comparison to aim 120 and pl-15 also makes it seem that this is just a logical upgrade when it really isnt. Id be happy to see these in PAF service but they likely wont be coming. Pl-16s are much more interesting and likely upgrade imo but we arent getting those before j-35s

Nope, I didn't say I was adamant. I said PAF could get it. I never said it was an upgrade either. You people seem to think just because we acquire a more capable weapon we just throw away the ones we had previously. It's simply another weapon for a specific mission profile, adding additional capabilities and offering more options for the PAF for specific roles, assuming the PAF get it of course.

 

[Michael]

It is still too early to discuss the 'combination of J-10CE and PL-17.' This has nothing to do with whether the J-10C fighter jet is equipped with PL-17 air-to-air missiles.

The current PAF air tactical support system is completely unable to support this type of missile. We need to wait until the PAF completes the construction of a new air tactical support system before discussing it.

AEW&C systems similar to the KJ-500 are a crucial part of this new system. What we can be certain of is that both Erieye and ZDK-03 do not support this new system.

 

[studsmart]

A bazzare thought but can erieye carry pl17 ... wurh it's radar ot can hot targets at 400+km range

 

[Pak-Warrior]

The U.S.'s New Missile Will Counter Chinese Fighters

The AIM-260 will “out stick” enemy fighters, shooting them down before they can shoot back.

www.popularmechanics.com

Genatempo, as reported by Air Force Magazine, described JATM as a “next air-to-air air dominance weapon for our air-to-air fighters.” The missile will initially arm the F-22 Raptor, equipping the main weapons bay, and the Navy’s F/A-18E/F fighter jets. Deployment on the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter will follow, but the missile will skip older generation jets such as the F-15 Eagle and F-16 Fighting Falcon, both of which will still be around in the 2020s.


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why dont you put forth your reasons that F16s will have new generation of A2A, rather trying act smarty pants?

Regardless if AIM260 is integrated into F-16s or not. Pakistan will not be granted next gen / long range AAM i.e AIM260.

Its basics of understanding geopolitics, despite 'favorite field marshal', we are in no such significance for United States as India is. AIM260 will be for US airforce, some NATO allies, Israel and maybe any one of the GCC nations against ridiculously expensive deal.

F-16 block52s and AMRAAMs were sold to us at height of Pakistan - US collaboration when Pakistan was a sole supply line for US forces in Afghanistan. We were a must partner for them. Yet again those were sold as "defensive capability". No stand off air to ground weapons are allowed. As part of agreement, we can't integrate any air to surface stand off capability. Even 120C were sold as defensive means to protect against any air attack.

I don't see even any remote possibility of PAF getting AIM260. However, yes 120D can be sold but not anytime soon.

 

[Taimoor]

Regardless if AIM260 is integrated into F-16s or not. Pakistan will not be granted next gen / long range AAM i.e AIM260.

Its basics of understanding geopolitics, despite 'favorite field marshal', we are in no such significance for United States as India is. AIM260 will be for US airforce, some NATO allies, Israel and maybe any one of the GCC nations against ridiculously expensive deal.

F-16 block52s and AMRAAMs were sold to us at height of Pakistan - US collaboration when Pakistan was a sole supply line for US forces in Afghanistan. We were a must partner for them. Yet again those were sold as "defensive capability". No stand off air to ground weapons are allowed. As part of agreement, we can't integrate any air to surface stand off capability. Even 120C were sold as defensive means to protect against any air attack.

I don't see even any remote possibility of PAF getting AIM260. However, yes 120D can be sold but not anytime soon.

Which ties up with the original conversation, why spend precious monetary resources on upgrading the numbers of F16s in PAF when a) They cant outgun what we already posses in the shape of PL15 and inhouse standoff weapons, b) cant be mated with inhouse munitions, c) Comes with the randi rona of Zoinist/Hindutva lobby in US and all the strings attached, who got time and patience for that?

I really wish there was some hidden mechanism, a press of a button, where our F16s can transform into battlestar galactica and serve us for next one thousand years, I mean no disrespect to the fan boys, but there has to be a realisation from practical point of view, that F16s are now third tier platforms and will go further down the chain with the introduction of J35. By all means, keep them at optimal current levels, where they act as bomb truck within the domain where air supremacy is already established over hostile airspace, and can also act as point defence with their charlies. Even for argument sake if we somehow get Ds (which I presume will require upgrade to AESA, a costly endevour), I doubt even with Ds PAF will risk them sending against Meteor, I mean why would you when you already have PL15 and I am very confident, in next round of hostiles, IAF will eat something more potent then PL15.