PAF J-10CE News Updates and Discussions part ll

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

J-10CE is a good alternative to the F-16s. Gone are the days of relying on F-16s.

We already make J-10C our main stay jet, almost all our F-16s are quite old with the exception of 18 block 52 F-16s, last year with a skirmish with India we used J-10Cs as our main air superiority jet whereas our F-16s did CAP (combat air petrol) and secondary air superiority missions duties during the conflict

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

We already make J-10C our main stay jet, almost all our F-16s are quite old with the exception of 18 block 52 F-16s, last year with a skirmish with India we used J-10Cs as our main air superiority jet whereas our F-16s did CAP (combat air petrol) and secondary air superiority missions duties during the conflict

Exactly, we should try to manufacture J-10Cs under Chinese license.

J-10Cs are superior to JF-17s.

 

[Hussain]

Yeah, but think they were literally in Iraqi airspace at the time, could be wrong.

operating from a base in southern iraq 180km SW of Najaf

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

I dont think pl-17 is coming. Think about it, pl-15 was their new standard missile to beat aim-120D and paf only got it after committing to j-10C which they were evidently hesitant about. ...

Not hesitant. They waited for Rafales to arrive first and then fast track everything all within just 9 months.

Date​	Event​
30/06/2021​	Contract signed.
04/03/2022​	First batch of 6 delivered.
30/08/2022​	Second batch of 4 delivered.
04/01/2024​	Third batch of 10 delivered.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Exactly, we should try to manufacture J-10Cs under Chinese license.

J-10Cs are superior to JF-17s.

We have no know how to manufacture medium weight jet like J-10C, we should move step by step, First we need to manufacture 100% JF-17 Block-3 (at least from airframe perspective) than we should move to J-10C local production which is currently quite impossible right now

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Exactly, we should try to manufacture J-10Cs under Chinese license.

J-10Cs are superior to JF-17s.

you mean local assembly line like for J-10C (under license) like Indians doing the Same thing with their Su-30 MKI, If that's is your mean in your above post, so Yes I think its quite possible

 

[studsmart]

Instead of J10C, we should acquire a Pakistani version of J35, known as PFX. This represents the direction of the future. In approximately ten years, all 4.5-generation fighter types will resemble the Mirage 2000 of today, or potentially even less advanced.

 

[Michael]

We have no know how to manufacture medium weight jet like J-10C, we should move step by step, First we need to manufacture 100% JF-17 Block-3 (at least from airframe perspective) than we should move to J-10C local production which is currently quite impossible right now

Do you know what '100%' means?

You need to first figure out this concept.

 

[Cipher212]

Do you know what '100%' means?

You need to first figure out this concept.

100% manufacturing of the bare airframe itself is a feasible goal for the next 10-15 years. That is, if the JF-17 manages to remain relevant.

 

[Michael]

DF-4/3.

The "DF" here in Chinese is not "东风(Dong Feng)", but "导发(Dao Fa)". It means missile launcher.

"DF-4" is a heavy missile launcher widely deployed by the PLA. It is mainly used for mounting heavy air-to-ground/air-to-sea missiles on fighter jets; of course, it can also be used to mount the PL-17 ultra-long-range air-to-air missile.

It is worth noting that this heavy missile launcher appeared on J-10 series fighter jets a long time ago. Based on its appearance, the so-called analysis that the J-10C is equipped with the PL-17 missile is not credible.

 

[RealNapster]

To be fair, I dont realize the need or suitability of PL-17, China is a friend but we should be practical and logical in asking for weapons platforms. Its not like they will share everything with us by the minute they develop it.

The next logical step ahead of PL-15 is PL-16, it is the more modern version with better performance then PL-15 and we can field them in hundreds. That's what will help our J-35 as well as J-10C and possibly JF-17. Even range vise PL16 gives you 280 km range. What else do you want ? AAM with 1000 km range ???

 

[rafale]

We already make J-10C our main stay jet, almost all our F-16s are quite old with the exception of 18 block 52 F-16s, last year with a skirmish with India we used J-10Cs as our main air superiority jet whereas our F-16s did CAP (combat air petrol) and secondary air superiority missions duties during the conflict

F-16s are good enough to eat through the Mig29s/M2Ks,Jaguars and Even SU30MKIs.

J-10CE and JF-17 BLK III will focus on Rafales and MKIs to take them out in long ranges, while F-16s flying CAP can provide the back up numbers to take out remaining jets and any large UAVs. Remember F-16s can carry serious AA to load out.......2x AMRAAMs to take out Mig29/M2Ks/Jaguars and 2xSidewinders to take out UAVs in a single sortie.

You simply don't give up that sort of capability just because the platform is old.

 

[Yasser76]

F-16s are good enough to eat through the Mig29s/M2Ks,Jaguars and Even SU30MKIs.

J-10CE and JF-17 BLK III will focus on Rafales and MKIs to take them out in long ranges, while F-16s flying CAP can provide the back up numbers to take out remaining jets and any large UAVs. Remember F-16s can carry serious AA to load out.......2x AMRAAMs to take out Mig29/M2Ks/Jaguars and 2xSidewinders to take out UAVs in a single sortie.

You simply don't give up that sort of capability just because the platform is old.

Been saying this for ages, with no upgrade, SU-30MKI is late 80s tech trying to fight in a 4/5th Gen age.

It's only main attributes (thrust vectoring and two seater) are no obsolete in a world of data fusion and extreme BVR

Take away 28 Rafales, the SU-30MKI is supposed to be the sharp end and makes up 12 sqds. Add the 6 MIG-29 sqds and MK2000 Sqds and you are looking at the vast majaority of IAF planes lagging in AESA and 120km plus BVR.

Not a great position

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

F-16s are good enough to eat through the Mig29s/M2Ks,Jaguars and Even SU30MKIs.

J-10CE and JF-17 BLK III will focus on Rafales and MKIs to take them out in long ranges, while F-16s flying CAP can provide the back up numbers to take out remaining jets and any large UAVs. Remember F-16s can carry serious AA to load out.......2x AMRAAMs to take out Mig29/M2Ks/Jaguars and 2xSidewinders to take out UAVs in a single sortie.

You simply don't give up that sort of capability just because the platform is old.

With a introduction of ASTRA-MK1 on most IAF Jets ( range 110 km) and Super-Sukhoi upgrades to most of the IAF's fleet of MKI our F-16s will have less than 50% chances to survive against MKI-ASTA-MK1 combo, it will wise to replace our old rose Mirages with our old F-16 Block-40/42 which are unable to carry AMRAAM-D without any major upgrades to them

 

[rafale]

With a introduction of ASTRA-MK1 on most IAF Jets ( range 110 km) and Super-Sukhoi upgrades to most of the IAF's fleet of MKI our F-16s will have less than 50% chances to survive against MKI-ASTA-MK1 combo, it will wise to replace our old rose Mirages with our old F-16 Block-40/42 which are unable to carry AMRAAM-D without any major upgrades to them

You are mistaken and your reasoning is flawed in that you assume IAF will actually be able to fully integrate the ASTRA MK I or whatever in time and successfully also have tactics for it.

Clearly, 150km Meteors couldn't do shit on May 7th.

If PAF knows that IAF has the long stick, it will simply increase the J-10CEs numbers, use them and JF-17 BLK III to take out any Astra MK I carriers and Meteor carriers.

The future Air to Air combat is not gonna happen. It will be about how Pakistan defends against aerial threats and keeps striking in return. IAF will not challenge PAF in air combat regardless of whether they have Astra or whatever.