PAF J-10CE News Updates and Discussions part ll

[Deino]

We are at the Defense Forum in Pakistan. Although we all want to know what happened, we cannot obtain the details. I believe Pakistani officials will not disclose details of cooperation with China; this is a customary practice in China-Pakistan cooperation and serves as a bargaining chip to deter other countries. Therefore, when Bangladesh procured the J-10 fighter jet, it made demands of China. Bangladesh is demanding that China offer the same discounts and payment plans as Pakistan. This surprised us Chinese military enthusiasts, and we enthusiastically discussed the preferential rates for China-Pakistan cooperation projects.

Take the procurement of the J-10CE as an example—we still don't know the details of this collaboration. At the same time, we are also looking forward to the arrival of the J-35AE. So, many expectant members made predictions.

The statement I made earlier came from a video released by a retired Chinese Air Force member in February 2024, while the Pakistan Air Force's exercise to completely defeat the Typhoon fighter jet took place in January 2024. I have always been cautious about the sources of information. So, I never posted about this on the forum, and only when other members brought it up did I remember the video. A screenshot of this video was posted before.
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When Pakistan achieved a major victory on May 7, 2025, Chinese embassy staff and maintenance personnel learned of the news. China's authoritative media are conservative, and previous reports cited Pakistani news. In January 2026, China's authoritative military and defense agency announced the top ten national defense technology rankings. The J-10CE's achievements rank tenth in China's defense technology industry for 2025. If you're interested in the top nine, you can search for them. Or ask me, and any public information can be published. Authoritative Chinese media generally disclose authentic information involving military, defense, and diplomatic secrets at appropriate times.
View attachment 199179
We Chinese are quite reserved and usually don't embarrass others. Exercises conducted in January 2024. As of May 2026, the Qatari Typhoon fighter jets have been fully transferred to Turkey. In May 2026, authoritative Chinese media confirmed Pakistan's complete victory over the Typhoon fighter jets.
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At the same time, Authoritative Chinese media confirmed that when India invaded Pakistan in May 2025, Chinese technicians provided full technical support at the Pakistan Air Force base.
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https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1m55y6rEpS/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click&vd_source=178bd47d0ff718bf1eec24ddd12a3f1b

I keep these sources in Chinese; those who doubt can use AI to identify them.

I fully agree with you BUT - and that's a point no-one with at least a bit of understanding can deny - as long as the points I raised are not known, it is almost worthless!

I had a most interesting chat with an Eurofighter-pilot from the German Luftwaffe, who participated an exercise with the IAF and yes for sure, they had as expected "issues", but the point is, the rules of engagements, the number of aircraft participating, the additional assets and even more so the airspace restricted for the exercise have been that limiting, so that the Typhoon has in fact almost no chance at all.

My point is, exercises are following an in advance pre-scripted environment and under strict terms of conditions, so that any generalising conclusions - and that's what the uninformed mass always does! - are simply useless!

I do not want to deny these result and that does not mean I negate the J-10's qualities or the pilots performances, but the point is, they were favourable as a snapshot taken under the conditions just mentioned—conditions which, however, generally remain unknown to us. To truly be able to draw conclusions regarding which aircraft, armament, or air force—and whose tactics—are superior, one would simply have to give the participants free rein in their composition; yet this does not happen, and the parameters within which this limited picture was captured remain unknown to us.

Ergo... it is pointless!

 

[东风夜放花千树]

His point wasn't to question the veracity of the news.

Rather, the performance of Type A and Type B fighter jets in military exercises cannot be simply used to prove "Type A > Type B" or "Type A < Type B."

Modern fighter jets are extremely complex systems, influenced by numerous factors in their combat environment. In military exercises, we don't know the pre-set scenario of the engagement.

Chinese official news has reported that in a certain military exercise, the J-16 fighter jet defeated the J-20 fighter jet. Can we then directly use this official evidence to conclude that the J-16 is superior to the J-20? — That's meaningless.

Even in actual combat, this conclusion cannot be drawn definitively. For example, in a Counter-Strike game, I can consistently defeat your AK-47 with a knife. We wouldn't conclude that a knife is stronger than an AK-47.

Fighters are merely tools of war. The essence of war is a battle between people, not a battle between tools.

Big Brother J, the J-16D is more expensive than the J-20. Our Air Force proposed a concept: 'Without electronic warfare aircraft accompanying, we cannot take off for combat.'

There was a time when our military was played with by the U.S. forces in the South China Sea, like clowns. When our soldiers reached the combat location, they discovered that these enemy targets were all fake targets and false signals created by U.S. electronic warfare aircraft.

We can analyze it based on last year's Air Force parade formation. The early warning command echelon: KJ-500A and four bomber trucks J-16, KJ-600 and four heavy carrier-based aircraft J-15T. We can boldly speculate that early warning aircraft have electronic countermeasure functions or are equipped with J-16D, J-15D.

Special aircraft echelon: anti-submarine patrol aircraft, electronic reconnaissance aircraft, radar jamming aircraft are all escorted by two J-16s. The specific models were not specified.

We won’t discuss the transport, bomber, and tanker aircraft formations.

The fighter echelon consists of J-16D, J-20, J-35A, J-20S, J-20A. The main focus and key points are J-16D.

The carrier-based aircraft echelon consists of J-15DH, J-15DT, J-35, J-15T. The electronic warfare models are still introduced first and are in the front positions.

Big Brother, do you still remember 81192? That was our shame, and it is also the motivation for our efforts to develop electronic warfare.

Chinese military enthusiasts make very humble wishes.

 

[Deino]

Big Brother J, the J-16D is more expensive than the J-20. Our Air Force proposed a concept: 'Without electronic warfare aircraft accompanying, we cannot take off for combat.'

There was a time when our military was played with by the U.S. forces in the South China Sea, like clowns. When our soldiers reached the combat location, they discovered that these enemy targets were all fake targets and false signals created by U.S. electronic warfare aircraft.

We can analyze it based on last year's Air Force parade formation. The early warning command echelon: KJ-500A and four bomber trucks J-16, KJ-600 and four heavy carrier-based aircraft J-15T. We can boldly speculate that early warning aircraft have electronic countermeasure functions or are equipped with J-16D, J-15D.

Special aircraft echelon: anti-submarine patrol aircraft, electronic reconnaissance aircraft, radar jamming aircraft are all escorted by two J-16s. The specific models were not specified.

We won’t discuss the transport, bomber, and tanker aircraft formations.

The fighter echelon consists of J-16D, J-20, J-35A, J-20S, J-20A. The main focus and key points are J-16D.

The carrier-based aircraft echelon consists of J-15DH, J-15DT, J-35, J-15T. The electronic warfare models are still introduced first and are in the front positions.

Big Brother, do you still remember 81192? That was our shame, and it is also the motivation for our efforts to develop electronic warfare.

Chinese military enthusiasts make very humble wishes.

View attachment 199186

Pardon, NOTHING on this long post is relavant to the issue how credible it what conclusions can be drawn from such a claim and even more so NONE of my arguments is made invalid.

 

[rafale]

Pardon, NOTHING on this long post is relavant to the issue how credible it what conclusions can be drawn from such a claim and even more so NONE of my arguments is made invalid.

He wasn't replying to you, and even if off topic, I did learn a thing or two, especially how the Chinese would want to field their EW aircraft in actual combat formations. He is on point, that in today's air war, going plane on plane is useless. You fight as a team and eco-system rather than aircraft A searching for Aircraft B

You keep parroting the same thing again and again as if there is a reward for posting synonymous replies............take it easy.

PAF seems to be going in the right direction in that regards, fly EW and AWACS whenever major combat packages are going up in the air. Chinese have made leaps and leaps of progress on this front (of course, following on the USAF concepts). And it is no brainer that PAF would want the 5th Gen eco-system rather than just the jets.

 

[Dalit]

Pakistan is signing "pacts" right now that the Pakistan military cannot honour, and tax payers cannot fund. Pakistan barely has enough to handle the India threat, and somehow Pakistan is meant to help protect Saudi and Qatar on top ? There is a disconnect here somewhere between expectations and reality.

It is possible, but for that both Saudi Arabia and Qatar will have to open their wallets. If you ask me, it has been decided that wallets will be opened.

 

[mythbuster]

It is possible, but for that both Saudi Arabia and Qatar will have to open their wallets. If you ask me, it has been decided that wallets will be opened.

We have the master key, no worries.

 

[东风夜放花千树]

I fully agree with you BUT - and that's a point no-one with at least a bit of understanding can deny - as long as the points I raised are not known, it is almost worthless!

I had a most interesting chat with an Eurofighter-pilot from the German Luftwaffe, who participated an exercise with the IAF and yes for sure, they had as expected "issues", but the point is, the rules of engagements, the number of aircraft participating, the additional assets and even more so the airspace restricted for the exercise have been that limiting, so that the Typhoon has in fact almost no chance at all.

My point is, exercises are following an in advance pre-scripted environment and under strict terms of conditions, so that any generalising conclusions - and that's what the uninformed mass always does! - are simply useless!

I do not want to deny these result and that does not mean I negate the J-10's qualities or the pilots performances, but the point is, they were favourable as a snapshot taken under the conditions just mentioned—conditions which, however, generally remain unknown to us. To truly be able to draw conclusions regarding which aircraft, armament, or air force—and whose tactics—are superior, one would simply have to give the participants free rein in their composition; yet this does not happen, and the parameters within which this limited picture was captured remain unknown to us.

Ergo... it is pointless!

I agree with what you said about these director-style military exercises.

These do not test the combat capability of the military.

As far as I know, both China and the United States have military exercise training grounds that go beyond the human realm. Moreover, nuclear bomb simulations were used multiple times in between. Since you have the channels, I suggest you communicate with Pakistani pilots. They are among the best pilots in the world.

We have always highly respected Pakistani pilots. Since 2004, the two militaries have been exchanging combat experience. This includes air combat techniques, improvement plans, and assumptions about future air battles. Chinese military exercises like repeated verification. There is a process in between where equipment is swapped and simulated again. Pakistani pilots are about to carry out space missions; can you guess whether Pakistani pilots will pilot advanced Chinese aircraft?

The army, navy, and long-range defense forces also engage in exchanges and cooperation. I remember in land wars, the Indian command raised a white flag of surrender. The range of Pakistani artillery exceeded that of Indian artillery. This is the achievement of the Pakistani army.

 

[Michael]

Big Brother J, the J-16D is more expensive than the J-20. Our Air Force proposed a concept: 'Without electronic warfare aircraft accompanying, we cannot take off for combat.'

There was a time when our military was played with by the U.S. forces in the South China Sea, like clowns. When our soldiers reached the combat location, they discovered that these enemy targets were all fake targets and false signals created by U.S. electronic warfare aircraft.

We can analyze it based on last year's Air Force parade formation. The early warning command echelon: KJ-500A and four bomber trucks J-16, KJ-600 and four heavy carrier-based aircraft J-15T. We can boldly speculate that early warning aircraft have electronic countermeasure functions or are equipped with J-16D, J-15D.

Special aircraft echelon: anti-submarine patrol aircraft, electronic reconnaissance aircraft, radar jamming aircraft are all escorted by two J-16s. The specific models were not specified.

We won’t discuss the transport, bomber, and tanker aircraft formations.

The fighter echelon consists of J-16D, J-20, J-35A, J-20S, J-20A. The main focus and key points are J-16D.

The carrier-based aircraft echelon consists of J-15DH, J-15DT, J-35, J-15T. The electronic warfare models are still introduced first and are in the front positions.

Big Brother, do you still remember 81192? That was our shame, and it is also the motivation for our efforts to develop electronic warfare.

Chinese military enthusiasts make very humble wishes.

View attachment 199186

Friend:

1. This is an international forum. Chinese nationalist sentiment is meaningless here.

2. I joined the CCP in 1998. Therefore, you don't need to doubt my loyalty to the country.

Regarding my comparative analysis of the J-10CE fighter jet, I have already submitted my opinions:

Post in thread 'PAF J-10CE News Updates and Discussions part ll'

May 23, 2026

Alright.
If the moderators permit, I’ll join in the fun. However, I still strongly urge the moderators to step in immediately and put a stop to this pointless bickering!

===========================================

If these fighter jets were placed in a completely isolated environment—operating entirely without any system-level support:
Rafale > J-10CE > J-10C

If these fighter jets were compared within an optimal support environment:
Rafale < J-10CE < J-10C

The fundamental logic of modern military weapon design precludes any modern weapon from...

• Michael

• 

 

[KingQamaR]

Friend:

1. This is an international forum. Chinese nationalist sentiment is meaningless here.

2. I joined the CCP in 1998. Therefore, you don't need to doubt my loyalty to the country.

Regarding my comparative analysis of the J-10CE fighter jet, I have already submitted my opinions:

Post in thread 'PAF J-10CE News Updates and Discussions part ll'

May 23, 2026

Alright.
If the moderators permit, I’ll join in the fun. However, I still strongly urge the moderators to step in immediately and put a stop to this pointless bickering!

===========================================

If these fighter jets were placed in a completely isolated environment—operating entirely without any system-level support:
Rafale > J-10CE > J-10C

If these fighter jets were compared within an optimal support environment:
Rafale < J-10CE < J-10C

The fundamental logic of modern military weapon design precludes any modern weapon from...

• Michael

• 

What experience of western jets are you talking about here? Almost all modern western jets have only ever faced guys wearing flip flops carrying AK47s no offence meant to them by my comment . This is the first time the top of the line European or western jet has faced an equivalent 2 decade old jet called JC10c ° old jet from people not wearing flip flops.

 

[Michael]

What experience of western jets are you talking about here? Almost all modern western jets have only ever faced guys wearing flip flops carrying AK47s no offence meant to them by my comment . This is the first time the top of the line European or western jet has faced an equivalent 2 decade old jet called JC10c ° old jet from people not wearing flip flops.

Did you read that passage carefully?

 

[东风夜放花千树]

It is possible, but for that both Saudi Arabia and Qatar will have to open their wallets. If you ask me, it has been decided that wallets will be opened.

I respect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Gulf countries. I understand some of the history and development of the Gulf countries. My suggestions are just personal opinions.

I believe the Gulf countries need protection provided by Pakistan. Pakistan is the only country in the Islamic world that possesses nuclear weapons. The protection treaty signed between Pakistan and Saudi Arabia has drawn global attention. When the Pakistani military promises to protect a country, it also paves the way for employment for Pakistan's labor and technical talents. High-quality services always bring spillover effects. I believe Pakistan will replace U.S. bases to provide security services to Gulf countries and take over positions from India to carry out legitimate and beneficial work. Following Allah's guidance, do not engage in 'unjust wars.' This way, the Muslim world can achieve peace and development.

Saudi Arabia possesses DF-XX missiles, and Pakistan has nuclear weapons. This ensures deterrence against others attempting to invade the Muslim world. Especially Israel, this anti-human regime fears Pakistan entering the Middle East.

 

[KingQamaR]

Did you read that passage carefully?

My point Rafale has never faced a peer 4.5 Gen enemy before until that day. If the IAF covered Rafale it in cow dung or lemons believed that made it invisible to PAF. Our PAF will fight what’s ever is in front them regardless how the enemy’s deploy them.

 

[东风夜放花千树]

、

、

I fully agree with you BUT - and that's a point no-one with at least a bit of understanding can deny - as long as the points I raised are not known, it is almost worthless!

I had a most interesting chat with an Eurofighter-pilot from the German Luftwaffe, who participated an exercise with the IAF and yes for sure, they had as expected "issues", but the point is, the rules of engagements, the number of aircraft participating, the additional assets and even more so the airspace restricted for the exercise have been that limiting, so that the Typhoon has in fact almost no chance at all.

My point is, exercises are following an in advance pre-scripted environment and under strict terms of conditions, so that any generalising conclusions - and that's what the uninformed mass always does! - are simply useless!

I do not want to deny these result and that does not mean I negate the J-10's qualities or the pilots performances, but the point is, they were favourable as a snapshot taken under the conditions just mentioned—conditions which, however, generally remain unknown to us. To truly be able to draw conclusions regarding which aircraft, armament, or air force—and whose tactics—are superior, one would simply have to give the participants free rein in their composition; yet this does not happen, and the parameters within which this limited picture was captured remain unknown to us.

Ergo... it is pointless!

Sir, I have seen the two notification messages. You have fulfilled your obligation to inform. If I have violated the forum rules, please make sure to tell me which rules I have violated, rather than venting your emotions. Thank you.

I will strictly adhere to the forum rules and posting standards.

I have been responding within the scope of the J-10CE and the exercises you mentioned, while also replying to or sharing recent Chinese operational team sequences.

If I have violated forum order, I respect the hard work and decisions of all administrators. I accept any penalties for violating forum rules, including deleting posts, muting, deleting accounts, or filing lawsuits.

I believe the management will make a fair decision.

 

[ThoroughPro]

Hello , Mr. Deino and Ghazi52,
I heard,Pakistan need and seeking, more J-10 C (over 100).
Any news to confirm that PAF is negotiating with CHINA about more J-10C ?
Is current J-10C jet fighter ,capable to use PL-17 along with PL-15 ?

I once heard that india employs intelligent people to gather intelligence. I just realized that was a lie.

 

[m52k85]

Tf how the solid propellant grain is arranged, shaped, and fitted inside the motor casing has to do with T/W ratio of a fighter jet which uses a jet engine. Which works on the principle of compressing air

Bottom line in current PAF-IAF calculus is when you enjoy a 100% R-max advantage over adversary on your frontline BVR, that BVR does not give a 'F' if it is launched from 1.2 T/W ratio platform doing mach 1.2 at Angels 45 OR a platform with 0.9 T/W ratio doing mach 0.8 at Angels 30. Hell, it could be launched from a tubo prop and still probably outrange a R-77 on a Sukohi.

And that BVR range advantage is driven my motor and grain technology. Hence the relationship between T/W platform requirements and grain technology.

Mastan's comment was even qualified by the assumption "PAF early warning radars are not asleep", giving our slower platforms enough time to get in position. That is why I thought your comment was in bad taste.