PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[Oscar]

Although many Pakistanis would not agree with my view, I still consider this a very serious problem in today's Pakistan.

It is well known that China is the largest supplier to the Pakistani military today and serves as one of the country's key economic and political pillars.

However, authoritative statistics indicate that the proportion of Pakistanis who understand or are learning Chinese is far lower than that in India—even though India has consistently regarded China as its greatest adversary.

In real life, I know some Indians active in China. Not only do they speak standard Chinese (Mandarin), but they also speak various Chinese dialects—such as Cantonese, Hokkien, and Hakka—and can even understand some of the Sichuanese I speak.
I once had Pakistani technical specialists living in the apartment above mine. I would run into them in the elevator. They could only understand simple, everyday Mandarin; if my pronunciation wasn't standard enough or I spoke too quickly, they wouldn't understand a thing.

Yet, on this forum, many Pakistanis take pride in speaking English while looking down on Chinese.

My point isn't about the inherent merits of the Chinese language; rather, it is that if you want to learn from a good friend and gain knowledge, you must first understand what is on their mind. If Pakistan were the world's leading nation today, I wouldn't mind learning Urdu, Pashto, or any other Pakistani language.

There was a time when Chinese people widely studied Russian because the Soviet Union was a top-tier global power—and the only one willing to help China. Today, the United States is the world's leading nation, and English has become a compulsory subject for Chinese students (though, with the ongoing decline of the U.S., many Chinese scholars have begun advocating for reducing the emphasis placed on English classes).

There is a Chinese philosophical term: "不耻下问." I wonder how many Pakistanis can understand this phrase.

I apologize for going off-topic. If the mods feel this is inappropriate, please delete this post.

These are all valid points and can actually become an issue especially during intense technical exchanges or even just disagreements on approach due to "lost in translation" mistakes. You yourself have experience on the forum on this when translation apps make mistakes.

However, there is also precedent for Pakistani "half efforts" - for e.g.
As muslims - most Pakistanis learn to read the Quran - some even memorizing it completely - yet most if not all cannot understand what they are reading.

Ironically, I was watching a video on Chinese muslims where(rightly for helping all understand and be on common ground) dont use the arabic word for god (Allah) but instead do "Zhen Zhu" - so that new converts and all can understand.

This was actually part of a movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Kitab

But helped the spread of Islam in China and did not dilute Islamic teachings nor make it culturally alien to China.

I make this point to further what you said - if there has to be closer cooperation - then BOTH languages (Chinese & Urdu) have to be at least understood in most common speak by people on exchange at the least,

Back in 1971 - Indians spoke Russian(Thanks to Joe Shearer for confirming this) to communicate between their vessels but even today Pakistani records say Russians were helping Indians by directly participating in the war(there were technical attaché's but other than operate the most sensitive of equipment behind lines they were not in the front).

Now imagine, if Pakistani operators spoke obscure Chinese dialects on and off for key terms that would leave Indians confused on and off - but also understanding Chinese would mean - (hypothetically) - lets say a J-10C was lost and China sent a replacement directly from stock which was not ready for english - then a Pakistani pilot who understood Chinese would still not have issues simply taking over the jet.

I am presenting that a simple scenario.

 

[worldwar]

These are all valid points and can actually become an issue especially during intense technical exchanges or even just disagreements on approach due to "lost in translation" mistakes. You yourself have experience on the forum on this when translation apps make mistakes.

However, there is also precedent for Pakistani "half efforts" - for e.g.
As muslims - most Pakistanis learn to read the Quran - some even memorizing it completely - yet most if not all cannot understand what they are reading.

Ironically, I was watching a video on Chinese muslims where(rightly for helping all understand and be on common ground) dont use the arabic word for god (Allah) but instead do "Zhen Zhu" - so that new converts and all can understand.

This was actually part of a movement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han_Kitab

But helped the spread of Islam in China and did not dilute Islamic teachings nor make it culturally alien to China.

I make this point to further what you said - if there has to be closer cooperation - then BOTH languages (Chinese & Urdu) have to be at least understood in most common speak by people on exchange at the least,

Back in 1971 - Indians spoke Russian(Thanks to Joe Shearer for confirming this) to communicate between their vessels but even today Pakistani records say Russians were helping Indians by directly participating in the war(there were technical attaché's but other than operate the most sensitive of equipment behind lines they were not in the front).

Now imagine, if Pakistani operators spoke obscure Chinese dialects on and off for key terms that would leave Indians confused on and off - but also understanding Chinese would mean - (hypothetically) - lets say a J-10C was lost and China sent a replacement directly from stock which was not ready for english - then a Pakistani pilot who understood Chinese would still not have issues simply taking over the jet.

I am presenting that a simple scenario.

Debate is brewing in China over cutting the emphasis placed on English in education, and more and more people are backing this idea.
If other nations want to boost their relations with China, they have to learn Chinese. If not, China couldn’t care less

 

[Shui]

Debate is brewing in China over cutting the emphasis placed on English in education, and more and more people are backing this idea.
If other nations want to boost their relations with China, they have to learn Chinese. If not, China couldn’t care less

that's an overstatment, the debate is about whether English requirement for job seeking and school test should be only to second after Chinese, it is now rank over math, physics and many other subjects, ppl thinks that is too much, even more than our neighbor Japan, when Japan is in fact a US colony.

It has nothing to do with foreign trade or interaction, in this case, PLAAF and PAF would still uses English for sure.

 

[worldwar]

that's an overstatment, the debate is about whether English requirement for job seeking and school test should be only to second after Chinese, it is now rank over math, physics and many other subjects, ppl thinks that is too much, even more than our neighbor Japan, when Japan is in fact a US colony.

It has nothing to do with foreign trade or interaction, in this case, PLAAF and PAF would still uses English for sure.

You’ve fallen out of touch with the development of this world. Economics rules everything. Because numerous nations worldwide rely on China for their economic growth
Plenty of major hotels across America are now offering congee for breakfast to suit Chinese palates
Take Turkey for example. It keeps badmouthing China on the surface, but behind closed doors, it sends more and more students to study in China.
In 20 or 50 years, who can tell whether English or another language will dominate this planet?

 

[MH.Yang]

that's an overstatment, the debate is about whether English requirement for job seeking and school test should be only to second after Chinese, it is now rank over math, physics and many other subjects, ppl thinks that is too much, even more than our neighbor Japan, when Japan is in fact a US colony.

It has nothing to do with foreign trade or interaction, in this case, PLAAF and PAF would still uses English for sure.

As a father of two students, I can say with certainty: the most important subjects in Chinese schools now are mathematics, followed by Chinese, and is English. Then come physics, chemistry, biology, history, and so on.

 

[MH.Yang]

You’ve fallen out of touch with the development of this world. Economics rules everything. Because numerous nations worldwide rely on China for their economic growth
Plenty of major hotels across America are now offering congee for breakfast to suit Chinese palates
Take Turkey for example. It keeps badmouthing China on the surface, but behind closed doors, it sends more and more students to study in China.
In 20 or 50 years, who can tell whether English or another language will dominate this planet?

We insist on using Chinese as a lingua franca because it will preserve the underlying thinking logic of our civilization, allowing us and our descendants to adhere to our homeland, history, traditional values, and emotional anchor points.

We persist in learning English because it will help us and our descendants understand that the world has more than one rule, one narrative, and one standard of success. It will enable us to retain the ability to communicate with others, understand the necessity of openness for our civilization, maintain humility, compare and question, and learn from the advantages of borrowing and learning.

We insist on using Chinese and learning English in order to keep our roots in our homeland, look to the world with our eyes, have ourselves first, and then talk about communication.



Native Americans lived on the safest continent in the world for thousands of years, but when the colonizers set foot in their homeland, they had not even invented the wheel. Refusing to engage with the outside world is suicide for a civilization.




btw: I suddenly remembered that this is the J-35 thread. Then the F-35, which the J-35 is benchmarking against is also a product of global cooperation, and the J-35 itself has also benefited greatly from international exchanges.

 

[Yasser76]

We have gone off topic but it is a really interesting discourse I must say