PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

@Deino @PakAl
My suggestion, we could take this little game a little more seriously. The whole PDF is open to all who follow “PAF's J31/J35”. But we need to clarify a few conditions first:
1. The number of J31/J35's arriving at PAF. I don't think 2-4 units of experiential entry can be considered as official joining, the minimum should be 8 units to be considered as official service.
2, We should take the time when the J31/J35 landed on the PAF airbase.
Is there any interest in this proposal?
 
Due to GFW, I can't access Google, Twitter, Youtube ......... very many websites. My VPN has had some problems lately and is not working at the moment.

It's a big question mark if 5th or 6th prototype is flying. Even if 4 prototypes are built, we will witness 2 more and then j35s will be ready by the time Chinese 3rd aircraft carrier is here, which is around 2026. Ofcourse the land aircraft is different but people know j35 is very close so assumption is the land version must also be nearly ready, the timeline will be less as China will not be building a brand new plane but a land version of J35s, just like F35s have land version and navy version.
I don't know if you're paying attention.
The difference between the Navy version and the Air Force version of the fighter is more than just the wings and landing gear. There are actually a lot of differences between them, and there are a lot of differences in their internal details.
 
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It's a big question mark if 5th or 6th prototype is flying. Even if 4 prototypes are built, we will witness 2 more and then j35s will be ready by the time Chinese 3rd aircraft carrier is here, which is around 2026. Ofcourse the land aircraft is different but people know j35 is very close so assumption is the land version must also be nearly ready, the timeline will be less as China will not be building a brand new plane but a land version of J35s, just like F35s have land version and navy version.


Indeed, but the problem is even without the J-20 demonstrators, the J-20 had altogether 6 true prototypes and now for the J-35/31 program with two very different variants in development and especially the naval one having a much more demanding and risky flight test phase before reaching production status within 6+ years, we know at the moment 3 J-35 (maybe 4) + 1 J-31 (maybe 2) within 3 years.
Even more some peoples think, a prototype 3505 is the fifth, which is not correct since it is only the third one flying.

In summary again: to think already next year, the first J-31s could be ready for export is just wishful thinking.
 
I don't know if you're paying attention.
The difference between the Navy version and the Air Force version of the fighter is more than just the wings and landing gear. There are actually a lot of differences between them, and there are a lot of differences in their internal details.

I understand but the main plane will be ready in a few years time, it will then take a few more years for the land version, and at the moment we know a land version exists aswell, we have not much information available on how fast the progress is going. This is why I say Pakistan may place order around 2030 time and we should see a small number in paf around 2032. However I still believe J10Cs, F16s, Jf17 block 3s are enough for us until India inducts a 5th generation which will be after 2035s. For Pakistan it's better to wait till J31 is mature platform, and we can then order a upgraded version, possibly 5.5th generation with UCAV wingman. Paf may also be thinking of buying a small number of J31s so they can build their skills and tactics, and then the next order will be with UCAV wingman. It's all speculations.
 
I understand but the main plane will be ready in a few years time, it will then take a few more years for the land version, and at the moment we know a land version exists aswell, we have not much information available on how fast the progress is going. This is why I say Pakistan may place order around 2030 time and we should see a small number in paf around 2032. However I still believe J10Cs, F16s, Jf17 block 3s are enough for us until India inducts a 5th generation which will be after 2035s. For Pakistan it's better to wait till J31 is mature platform, and we can then order a upgraded version, possibly 5.5th generation with UCAV wingman. Paf may also be thinking of buying a small number of J31s so they can build their skills and tactics, and then the next order will be with UCAV wingman. It's all speculations.
UCAV is a part of China's military strategy, and we can learn a little from the development of GJ11. It is likely to be used not only to cooperate with J35, but also to upgrade and develop China's 4.5-generation and above fighter jets, except for J10. The upgrade and development of other fighter jets will inevitably include drone wingmen (J16 series/shipborne J15 series/J35/J20)
 
I understand but the main plane will be ready in a few years time, it will then take a few more years for the land version, and at the moment we know a land version exists aswell, we have not much information available on how fast the progress is going. This is why I say Pakistan may place order around 2030 time and we should see a small number in paf around 2032. However I still believe J10Cs, F16s, Jf17 block 3s are enough for us until India inducts a 5th generation which will be after 2035s. For Pakistan it's better to wait till J31 is mature platform, and we can then order a upgraded version, possibly 5.5th generation with UCAV wingman. Paf may also be thinking of buying a small number of J31s so they can build their skills and tactics, and then the next order will be with UCAV wingman. It's all speculations.
Oh, dear Pakistani iron brothers, please restore sanity in moderation.

We know that China-Pakistan relations are very friendly and China does not have many restrictions on military trade with Pakistan. We also know that China's UAV development is very fast and there are many very advanced UAVs.

But please be calm.

So far, we have found no evidence of any large-scale testing of UAV wingmen, much less any formal deployment of UAV wingmen by the PLA. We've only seen evidence of UAVs working in concert with other PLA military aircraft, not the emergence of a UAV wingman system. It will take time.

Does it make any sense to discuss “PAF is ready to procure Chinese UAV wingmen” before the J35 even arrives at PAF? We should at least wait until the Chinese UAV wingman system is fully matured and PAF already has J35 before discussing this issue.

Please focus on solving the current problem first.

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None of the UAVs that PLA is currently equipped with can be used as an unmanned wingman.
GJ11 cannot be used as an unmanned wingman. Of all the UAVs announced by China so far (including planned programs), only the Dark Sword UAV and the FH-97 may be called unmanned wingmen. The development progress of these two UAVs is rather mysterious and there is no reliable information about them.
 
Oh, dear Pakistani iron brothers, please restore sanity in moderation.

We know that China-Pakistan relations are very friendly and China does not have many restrictions on military trade with Pakistan. We also know that China's UAV development is very fast and there are many very advanced UAVs.

But please be calm.

So far, we have found no evidence of any large-scale testing of UAV wingmen, much less any formal deployment of UAV wingmen by the PLA. We've only seen evidence of UAVs working in concert with other PLA military aircraft, not the emergence of a UAV wingman system. It will take time.

Does it make any sense to discuss “PAF is ready to procure Chinese UAV wingmen” before the J35 even arrives at PAF? We should at least wait until the Chinese UAV wingman system is fully matured and PAF already has J35 before discussing this issue.

Please focus on solving the current problem first.

==============================================
None of the UAVs that PLA is currently equipped with can be used as an unmanned wingman.
GJ11 cannot be used as an unmanned wingman. Of all the UAVs announced by China so far (including planned programs), only the Dark Sword UAV and the FH-97 may be called unmanned wingmen. The development progress of these two UAVs is rather mysterious and there is no reliable information about them.
The official has never stated that GJ11 cannot serve as an unmanned wingman. On the contrary, the animation broadcast by CCTV has given the imagination of the public
Screenshot_20241013_154600_Baidu.jpg
 
The official has never stated that GJ11 cannot serve as an unmanned wingman. On the contrary, the animation broadcast by CCTV has given the imagination of the public
View attachment 72184
I know this, and I've seen a lot of this kind of coverage, including CCTV. however, all of the coverage has been from the media, not the military.

The GJ11 can form up with the J20 for coordinated combat, but not as an unmanned wingman.

These are two different concepts.

The GJ11 is a flying wing layout. It's a subsonic UAV. it can't keep up with the J20 at all, and it's flying wing layout results in it's maneuverability not keeping up with the J20's reaction speed at all.

Unmanned wingmen are needed to engage in air combat with manned fighters. Unmanned wingmen need to scout ahead of manned fighters, as well as guide air-to-air missiles. In case of emergency, it can shield manned fighters from incoming missiles. The point here is that the UAV needs to be capable of aerial combat.

The GJ11 does not have air combat capability. It can perform some missions in conjunction with the J20. All stealth airplanes have very limited ammunition capacity, the J20 can't carry external munitions in official missions, it can only carry “4+2” air-to-air missiles, more air-to-air missiles, air-to-ground missiles, aerial bombs, etc, can be carried by the GJ11. But this is not the concept of an unmanned wingman.

The WZ-7 also works in tandem with the J16D, but we can't call this an unmanned wingman system.
 
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I know this, and I've seen a lot of this kind of coverage, including CCTV. however, all of the coverage has been from the media, not the military.

The GJ11 can form up with the J20 for coordinated combat, but not as an unmanned wingman.

These are two different concepts.

The GJ11 is a flying wing layout. It's a subsonic UAV. it can't keep up with the J20 at all, and it's flying wing layout results in it's maneuverability not keeping up with the J20's reaction speed at all.

Unmanned wingmen are needed to engage in air combat with manned fighters. Unmanned wingmen need to scout ahead of manned fighters, as well as guide air-to-air missiles. In case of emergency, it can shield manned fighters from incoming missiles. The point here is that the UW needs to be capable of aerial combat.

The GJ11 does not have air combat capability. It can perform some missions in conjunction with the J20. All stealth airplanes have very limited ammunition capacity, the J20 can't carry external munitions in official missions, it can only carry “4+2” air-to-air missiles, more air-to-air missiles, air-to-ground missiles, aerial bombs, etc, can be carried by the GJ11. But this is not the concept of an unmanned wingman.

The WZ-7 also works in tandem with the J16D, but we can't call this an unmanned wingman system.
According to this standard, it is very strict, and the existing neuron drones in France do not meet this speed standard. Let's take a look at the development of France's Rafale F5 fighter jet. French Defense Minister Sebastian Le Corbyn stated on the 8th at the Saint Di è zier Air Force Base that "preliminary requirements were communicated to relevant companies a few weeks ago." He added that the Rafale F5 fighter jet, which will enter service in the next decade, will be a "real revolution for our air force.
The core of the future version of the Rafale fighter jet is the "leap of interconnection". These fighter jets will be in service until the 1960s. The new fighter jet will be connected to sensors and accompanying drones on the ground, in flight, and in space. Leconi explained, "This drone has excellent stealth performance and can open the way and help penetrate in front of the Rafale fighter jet during missions." He also stated that the project is based on a "neuron" unmanned combat aircraft, but "it will be more ambitious in terms of technology
 
According to this standard, it is very strict, and the existing neuron drones in France do not meet this speed standard. Let's take a look at the development of France's Rafale F5 fighter jet. French Defense Minister Sebastian Le Corbyn stated on the 8th at the Saint Di è zier Air Force Base that "preliminary requirements were communicated to relevant companies a few weeks ago." He added that the Rafale F5 fighter jet, which will enter service in the next decade, will be a "real revolution for our air force.
The core of the future version of the Rafale fighter jet is the "leap of interconnection". These fighter jets will be in service until the 1960s. The new fighter jet will be connected to sensors and accompanying drones on the ground, in flight, and in space. Leconi explained, "This drone has excellent stealth performance and can open the way and help penetrate in front of the Rafale fighter jet during missions." He also stated that the project is based on a "neuron" unmanned combat aircraft, but "it will be more ambitious in terms of technology
The basic concept of a wingman.

Fighter aircraft are generally in two-engine formations (there are also special three-engine formations, i.e., one long plane with two wingmen structures).
The wingman is the primary aircraft and the wingman is the secondary aircraft.
The wingman is usually a new pilot, and only the captain is able to actively attack the enemy, the wingman is responsible for covering and observing the rear of the captain, and cannot leave the captain to actively attack the enemy.
The wingman's role is to help the pilot accomplish various tasks.
The wingman's first duty is to protect the captain and allow him to focus all his energies on the attack.

An unmanned wingman is a UAV that replaces the manned wingman. They will have a few details tweaked in their tactical approach, but the basic requirements don't change. The unmanned wingman must have at least adequate flight speed and basic air combat capabilities. When the GJ11 and J20 fly in formation, the J20 can only fly at speeds below Mach 1. When danger comes, the GJ11 has limited air maneuverability and it cannot keep up with the J20's air maneuvering tactics.

Currently, countries are exploring the tactical applications of future UAVs in air combat. The U.S. “loyal wingman” concept is based entirely on the concept of unmanned wingman. China and European countries currently do not have an official name or detailed plans. Therefore, we usually think that the concept of unmanned wingman is based on the above description. If we use the term “unmanned wingman”, we can only analyze it based on the above description.

Of course, unmanned wingmen are only one of the future air combat models, not all of them. Whether China's J20+GJ11 can explore a new mode of air combat, we don't know. But at least for now, it is not appropriate to use the concept of “unmanned wingman” to describe this combination. We can consider it as a new exploration model.

The Dark Sword UAV and the FH-97A are the UAVs designed for “unmanned wingmen”.
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What i am saying since strat is actually in between. Count me in "J-35 won't be in PAF colors before 2028, unless it is few examples" group.

Actually there are 4 groups of people:

Before Dec 2026
Before 2028
2028-2032 (I am in this)
Post 2032

It would be nice if someone create a poll and tag us all.


Poll Question: Pakistan will see the arrival of at least 8 PAF J31/35 aircraft by:

Option 1: By Dec 2026 - Lightning Strike
Option 2: Before 2028 - Sneak Attack
Option 3: 2028-2032 - Cruise Control
Option 4: Post 2032 - Delayed Departure
 
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What i am saying since strat is actually in between. Count me in "J-35 won't be in PAF colors before 2028, unless it is few examples" group.

Actually there are 4 groups of people:

Before Dec 2026
Before 2028
2028-2032 (I am in this)
Post 2032

It would be nice if someone create a poll and tag us all.


Poll Question: Pakistan will see the arrival of at least 8 PAF J31/35 aircraft by:

Option 1: By Dec 2026 - Lightning Strike
Option 2: Before 2028 - Sneak Attack
Option 3: 2028-2032 - Cruise Control
Option 4: Post 2032 - Delayed Departure
Hi,

Look at it this way---. Every fighter aircraft release is delayed by a year or two or three or more.

Our neighbor has a delay of 30 years

F-22 / F-35 had delays of 10 years.

And all these aircrafts had original delivery dates that they were never able to keep up with---.

A delivery date is just a projected delivery date to create a baseline timeline for the seller to complete the project---for the buyer to prepare for induction---.

JF17 was delayed by around 4+++ years approximately---.
 
Hi,

Look at it this way---. Every fighter aircraft release is delayed by a year or two or three or more.

Our neighbor has a delay of 30 years

F-22 / F-35 had delays of 10 years.

And all these aircrafts had original delivery dates that they were never able to keep up with---.

A delivery date is just a projected delivery date to create a baseline timeline for the seller to complete the project---for the buyer to prepare for induction---.

JF17 was delayed by around 4+++ years approximately---.

Yes, For actual induction, you are right.

But for a guess poll, we can put exact timeline. They won't need this grace period.
 

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