PAF SAM based Air Defense System - News, Discussion & Updates

[rafale]

So, in an assumed scenario where the enemy is looking to pinpoint the emissions of the HQ-17AE for a fix to have anti-radiation systems target it - even if the HQ-17AE is protecting a fixed site - it can relocate to various sites around the base to help prevent an accurate fix.

But if HQ17AE is moving and also tracking the incoming threat (because it can fire the interceptor while on the move), then the incoming threat can also get an update fix on the radio emissions of HQ17AE, no?

 

[Mujahid]

The issue I find is that, HQ17AE and Korkut are incompatible. Yes, both can do what you are describing, but if there was a way have them layered and networked, it would have been far more optimised and redundant no? So why go for two different OEM for two different layers of AD coverage? Chinese do have similar solution like Korkut.

We already have HQ-7 with Pakistan army Air defence.. This is for rapid deployment of PAF air bases AD..

 

[hasssanali8998]

HQ-7

baba adam ke zamane ka SAM kia karlega mere bbai

hq7 needs to be replaced , hq17ae will be the prime candidate . army and paf will both buy the system which is good

 

[Quwa]

Whether it's via licensing HQ-17AE or making something original, Pakistan needs a PDMS.

MBDA's CMI is a pretty good example of what can be done using readily available inputs that are already produced in Pakistan. E.g., MBDA CMI uses 122 mm rocket motors. NESCOM is already doing a lot of work re: new guidance-integrated fuzes, IIR work (FAAZ), new-gen proximity fuzes etc. Perhaps they should repurpose the Yarmouk tech into a PDMS? @Oscar

Counter Mass Interceptor cooperation announced at MSPO

MBDA and Polish research institute WITU have announced that they are cooperating on COUNTER MASS INTERCEPTOR (CMI), a low-cost high volume solution to mass attacks of threats from one-way and ISR drones, helicopters and cruise missiles.The CMI project reflects a wider movement in engineering...

www.mbda-systems.com

MBDA Unveils Mobile Counter-Drone Air Defense System with CMI and ASRAAM Missiles

MBDA reveals a mobile counter-drone air defense system combining CMI and ASRAAM missiles to defeat drones, cruise missiles, and helicopters.

www.armyrecognition.com

Plus, with Korkut and LD-76 adoption, we need some domestic programmable airburst munition. That is a must-have.

 

[hasssanali8998]

we need some domestic programmable airburst munition. That is a must-have.

its my hope/cope that we bought korkut to get TOT for ATOM to use in korkut and our oerlikons

 

[Gripen9]

So, in an assumed scenario where the enemy is looking to pinpoint the emissions of the HQ-17AE for a fix to have anti-radiation systems target it - even if the HQ-17AE is protecting a fixed site - it can relocate to various sites around the base to help prevent an accurate fix.

I believe same mindset as with Crotale.

 

[Gripen9]

But if HQ17AE is moving and also tracking the incoming threat (because it can fire the interceptor while on the move), then the incoming threat can also get an update fix on the radio emissions of HQ17AE, no?

Not continuously moving but moved multiple times throughout the day.
You time it with known Indian sat passes.

 

[Zephyrus]

I think PAF got it because it made economic sense, unlike the HQ7 it has an all integrated TELAR vehicle. carries same amount of missiles as a whole system of HQ7s (1 c2 vehicle, 2 missile launchers (4 missiles each))
my only issue is that it uses semi active radar homing missiles so it will have to keep its radar on for the whole engagement making it susceptible to Anti Radiation munitions.

 

[Toxic]

I think PAF got it because it made economic sense, unlike the HQ7 it has an all integrated TELAR vehicle. carries same amount of missiles as a whole system of HQ7s (1 c2 vehicle, 2 missile launchers (4 missiles each))
my only issue is that it uses semi active radar homing missiles so it will have to keep its radar on for the whole engagement making it susceptible to Anti Radiation munitions.

Actually that might not be the case, PAF HQ-17AEs seem to be different, at a defense expo a different HQ-17 missile was shown with what seemed like a radar seeker.

 

[BlueMarlin]

Perhaps they had rapid relocation in mind?
But I agree - what system do you think suited that specific use case of subsonic cruise + potential supersonic intercept?

Lets say there is a coordinated TOT 同时弹着射击 with Brahmos, Scalp and also loitering munitions?

the hq17 is decent for the scalp and brahmos when they are at their final terminal phases and the anti air guns as a last resort.

for something which can intercept these at longer ranges i would say a sam variant of the pl-10 the ir seeker would get a firmer lock than a seeker based missile and suitable for both scalp and brahmos. and then the hq-16 variant beyond this.


the usa did a study not to long ago to to compare supersonic and subsonic missiles, whilst they serve different purposes, subsonic missiles poised a greater threat simply due to its stealthy profile. the scalp is the worry here.

i wonder if pakistani cruise missiles were used against india?

 

[BlueMarlin]

Whether it's via licensing HQ-17AE or making something original, Pakistan needs a PDMS.

MBDA's CMI is a pretty good example of what can be done using readily available inputs that are already produced in Pakistan. E.g., MBDA CMI uses 122 mm rocket motors. NESCOM is already doing a lot of work re: new guidance-integrated fuzes, IIR work (FAAZ), new-gen proximity fuzes etc. Perhaps they should repurpose the Yarmouk tech into a PDMS? @Oscar

Counter Mass Interceptor cooperation announced at MSPO

MBDA and Polish research institute WITU have announced that they are cooperating on COUNTER MASS INTERCEPTOR (CMI), a low-cost high volume solution to mass attacks of threats from one-way and ISR drones, helicopters and cruise missiles.The CMI project reflects a wider movement in engineering...

www.mbda-systems.com

MBDA Unveils Mobile Counter-Drone Air Defense System with CMI and ASRAAM Missiles

MBDA reveals a mobile counter-drone air defense system combining CMI and ASRAAM missiles to defeat drones, cruise missiles, and helicopters.

www.armyrecognition.com

Plus, with Korkut and LD-76 adoption, we need some domestic programmable airburst munition. That is a must-have.

the israeli c-dome is a good reference point here. they even have a variant on their corvettes.


pakistan i has the faaz ir which is a good cheap missile which can be used to take down drone early on.

 

[Oscar]

Whether it's via licensing HQ-17AE or making something original, Pakistan needs a PDMS.

MBDA's CMI is a pretty good example of what can be done using readily available inputs that are already produced in Pakistan. E.g., MBDA CMI uses 122 mm rocket motors. NESCOM is already doing a lot of work re: new guidance-integrated fuzes, IIR work (FAAZ), new-gen proximity fuzes etc. Perhaps they should repurpose the Yarmouk tech into a PDMS? @Oscar

Counter Mass Interceptor cooperation announced at MSPO

MBDA and Polish research institute WITU have announced that they are cooperating on COUNTER MASS INTERCEPTOR (CMI), a low-cost high volume solution to mass attacks of threats from one-way and ISR drones, helicopters and cruise missiles.The CMI project reflects a wider movement in engineering...

www.mbda-systems.com

MBDA Unveils Mobile Counter-Drone Air Defense System with CMI and ASRAAM Missiles

MBDA reveals a mobile counter-drone air defense system combining CMI and ASRAAM missiles to defeat drones, cruise missiles, and helicopters.

www.armyrecognition.com

Plus, with Korkut and LD-76 adoption, we need some domestic programmable airburst munition. That is a must-have.

Depends on what fuse - and platform that gets into.

You have a motor which is one component but then you need an existing seeker. You could repurpose whatever Faaz IR stack there is but that its costs. Then what do you launch this from like a container or rail system that both supports the missile, gets you quick reloads and has wiring in it to interface with fire control.

Put it into a single system it might be more survivable and easy to relocate or you put it onto a network with a fiber cable to base AD C2 and it is cheaper and more responsive.

There are third parties that could actually achieve the latter solution for you outside of GIDS and NESCOM -

Also on the guns -you need something compatible with both systems which means it has to be able to read both the coils in Korkut and LD-76 to set the fuze.

I would be surprised if the coils on both are somewhat even similar.