Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

[Michael]

I was referring to the FTC2000 in the role of LIFT and trainer, not heavy ground attack aircraft. The FTC2000 shares a lot of similarity in airframe and engine with the F7s the PAF already use. Although the JH7 would be a good ground attack aircraft, it would mean having to induct a new type in the PAF fleet, new airframe and new engine.

The FTC2000, designated JL-9 in China, is an outdated trainer aircraft. Even its latest model, the JL-9G, despite numerous improvements and upgrades, remains an obsolete aircraft. The PLA (PLAAF + PLA Navy) is large, and the current production of our JL-10 cannot meet its urgent needs, which is why we still use the JL-9 as a trainer aircraft for pilots.

The PAF (Pakistan Air Force) is much smaller, and purchasing a small number of JL-10s would be a better option.

Now, the engine of the new FTC2000G has already been replaced, and it is not the same as the engine of the PAF's F-7.
The PAF's F-7 is too old and has little remaining value. The best option is to patiently wait for new fighter jets to replace them. It doesn't even have the value of being converted into a UAV.

Yeah, I think we need to get realistic here and maybe just offload as much work as we can to China, maybe they can do the upgrades? Or as you say, with new inductions may not be much point upgrading the Block IIs.

I know Pakistanis have a deep emotional attachment to the JF-17 fighter jet. But we need to look at it more rationally.

PAC can continue to produce the JF-17B3, and can even make minor upgrades to it, but there's no need to invest too much money and effort into major upgrades. We need to understand that the JF-17 was originally designed as a cost-effective fighter jet.

We need to strike a balance between cost and performance. The current cost of the JF-17B3 is very close to that of the J-10CE. If we continue to upgrade the JF-17 to make it more advanced, its price might exceed that of the J-10CE.

In terms of fighter jet development, Pakistan needs to pursue a leapfrog (2-4-6) development approach with its partners, rather than a gradual (2-3-4-5-6) development approach.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

The FTC2000, designated JL-9 in China, is an outdated trainer aircraft. Even its latest model, the JL-9G, despite numerous improvements and upgrades, remains an obsolete aircraft. The PLA (PLAAF + PLA Navy) is large, and the current production of our JL-10 cannot meet its urgent needs, which is why we still use the JL-9 as a trainer aircraft for pilots.

The PAF (Pakistan Air Force) is much smaller, and purchasing a small number of JL-10s would be a better option.

Now, the engine of the new FTC2000G has already been replaced, and it is not the same as the engine of the PAF's F-7.
The PAF's F-7 is too old and has little remaining value. The best option is to patiently wait for new fighter jets to replace them. It doesn't even have the value of being converted into a UAV.


I know Pakistanis have a deep emotional attachment to the JF-17 fighter jet. But we need to look at it more rationally.

PAC can continue to produce the JF-17B3, and can even make minor upgrades to it, but there's no need to invest too much money and effort into major upgrades. We need to understand that the JF-17 was originally designed as a cost-effective fighter jet.

We need to strike a balance between cost and performance. The current cost of the JF-17B3 is very close to that of the J-10CE. If we continue to upgrade the JF-17 to make it more advanced, its price might exceed that of the J-10CE.

In terms of fighter jet development, Pakistan needs to pursue a leapfrog (2-4-6) development approach with its partners, rather than a gradual (2-3-4-5-6) development approach.

Can you explain (2-4-6) and (2-3-4-5-6) development approach?

 

[Scorpio]

Yes. 3 Mirage and 3 PG squadrons remain in service and will be gradually replaced by Hi-tech aircraft.

Not that easy .. money metters that why unfortunately PAF Dragging Mirages and Even F7pg, till date ...

Now JF17 block 1 is near end of life ..

So PAF shopping list is long .. new high tech jets cost a lot ...

Let's see how PAF plan this out .

They might prolong life Mirages again .. as they extended life F-16 till 2040s

 

[Scorpio]

The FTC2000, designated JL-9 in China, is an outdated trainer aircraft. Even its latest model, the JL-9G, despite numerous improvements and upgrades, remains an obsolete aircraft. The PLA (PLAAF + PLA Navy) is large, and the current production of our JL-10 cannot meet its urgent needs, which is why we still use the JL-9 as a trainer aircraft for pilots.

The PAF (Pakistan Air Force) is much smaller, and purchasing a small number of JL-10s would be a better option.

Now, the engine of the new FTC2000G has already been replaced, and it is not the same as the engine of the PAF's F-7.
The PAF's F-7 is too old and has little remaining value. The best option is to patiently wait for new fighter jets to replace them. It doesn't even have the value of being converted into a UAV.


I know Pakistanis have a deep emotional attachment to the JF-17 fighter jet. But we need to look at it more rationally.

PAC can continue to produce the JF-17B3, and can even make minor upgrades to it, but there's no need to invest too much money and effort into major upgrades. We need to understand that the JF-17 was originally designed as a cost-effective fighter jet.

We need to strike a balance between cost and performance. The current cost of the JF-17B3 is very close to that of the J-10CE. If we continue to upgrade the JF-17 to make it more advanced, its price might exceed that of the J-10CE.

In terms of fighter jet development, Pakistan needs to pursue a leapfrog (2-4-6) development approach with its partners, rather than a gradual (2-3-4-5-6) development approach.

Question is how much price and new plateform induction cost for JL10 in comparison of JF17 Bravo (dual seater) block 2 ..

If price difference is not sufficient then .. why new plateform instead produce more JF17 Bravos as LIFT role as well ..

Even can create water down variant of Bravo for LiFT

 

[AeronautIR]

Not that easy .. money metters that why unfortunately PAF Dragging Mirages and Even F7pg, till date ...

Now JF17 block 1 is near end of life ..

So PAF shopping list is long .. new high tech jets cost a lot ...

Let's see how PAF plan this out .

They might prolong life Mirages again .. as they extended life F-16 till 2040s

But 1 5th gen squadron is more capable than all these squadrons, so except training role, we don't need them.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Not that easy .. money metters that why unfortunately PAF Dragging Mirages and Even F7pg, till date ...

Now JF17 block 1 is near end of life ..

So PAF shopping list is long .. new high tech jets cost a lot ...

Let's see how PAF plan this out .

They might prolong life Mirages again .. as they extended life F-16 till 2040s

Or zero the JF17 Block 1's since PAC can make the bulk of the airframe ?

 

[Michael]

Can you explain (2-4-6) and (2-3-4-5-6) development approach?

This is easy to understand; it's about leapfrog development.

Pakistan has experience in the research and development and manufacturing of 4th-generation fighter jets. Now, they are skipping 5th-generation fighter jets and directly participating in the research and development of 6th-generation fighter jets. The Pakistan Air Force will directly purchase finished 5th-generation fighter jets, and Pakistan will not be involved in any research and development or manufacturing work for them.

Question is how much price and new plateform induction cost for JL10 in comparison of JF17 Bravo (dual seater) block 2 ..

If price difference is not sufficient then .. why new plateform instead produce more JF17 Bravos as LIFT role as well ..

Even can create water down variant of Bravo for LiFT

This isn't a matter of price. You need to understand the difference between dedicated training aircraft and general-purpose training aircraft.

Dedicated training aircraft: (JF-17 Bravo/J-10S/J-11BS/J-15S...)
The JF-17 Bravo can only be used for training on the JF-17 series of fighter jets, but the training environment is completely identical to the real environment.

General-purpose training aircraft: (JL-10/JL-9/JL-8(K-8)/T-50/Yak-130...)
The JL-10 can simulate various Chinese fighter jets such as the J-10C, and J-35, but there are some differences between the training environment and the real environment.

The two cannot be simply compared in terms of price.

 

[Scorpio]

This is easy to understand; it's about leapfrog development.

Pakistan has experience in the research and development and manufacturing of 4th-generation fighter jets. Now, they are skipping 5th-generation fighter jets and directly participating in the research and development of 6th-generation fighter jets. The Pakistan Air Force will directly purchase finished 5th-generation fighter jets, and Pakistan will not be involved in any research and development or manufacturing work for them.


This isn't a matter of price. You need to understand the difference between dedicated training aircraft and general-purpose training aircraft.

Dedicated training aircraft: (JF-17 Bravo/J-10S/J-11BS/J-15S...)
The JF-17 Bravo can only be used for training on the JF-17 series of fighter jets, but the training environment is completely identical to the real environment.

General-purpose training aircraft: (JL-10/JL-9/JL-8(K-8)/T-50/Yak-130...)
The JL-10 can simulate various Chinese fighter jets such as the J-10C, and J-35, but there are some differences between the training environment and the real environment.

The two cannot be simply compared in terms of price.

Do you really think PAC or PAF have capabilities to do any kind R&D on sixth generation jet .. seems non realistic

Secondly only county with Pakistan can approach for 6th is china .. apparently china will not involve any partner in there 6th generation to control and secure there tech form fallowing in any other countries hands ...

 

[ghazi52]

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[Ak01]

@Oscar @Bilal @Fatman17 @JamD I have a question in my mind? and i want your opinion on it?

What if we mount a gun on super mushak and use them for targetting drones? or we can built one drone with mounted gun on it and used that just for drone swarm attack? it will be the cheapest solution to deter any small drones attack like kamikaze and loitering munition?
ya ye kahin bhtt stupid idea tau nahi mera? kyun kay after 7-10 may india-pak war i am constantly thinking how to counter these kamikaze and loitering munition drone attack but that must also be the cheap one kyun kay hum pakistani ghareeb b tau hain..

Miraj and F7 ka iss liye nahi kaha kay we need some slower aircraft under 600km/h speed jo better drones dhundh dhundh kay gun say shoot kar sakay? with miraj and F7 it will be difficult

can we build them fast enough?


it took is 9 years to delivery 52 to the Turks...what a joke. PAC is pathetic.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@Tariq Habib Afridi

Wouldn't a mix of DEWs and simple anti aircraft artillery be better?

Regards

 

[Oscar]

View attachment 166872

UET's Einsteins say Pentagon is confirming.
Lol.
Pentagon being dragged in for no reason when this whole thing is a snake eating its own tail. Allah khair UET ke ye halaat hain.

 

[NA71]

UET's Einsteins say Pentagon is confirming.
Lol.
Pentagon being dragged in for no reason when this whole thing is a snake eating its own tail. Allah khair UET ke ye halaat hain.

BTW for this news, every source begins with " Pentagon has confirmed"....

 

[Oscar]

BTW for this news, every source begins with " Pentagon has confirmed"....

Which means everyone is copying the same tripe.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

Now i know why they got a huge following on X. The pentagon report says that china offer 3 fighters for export. Thats all and they made it that pentagon confirms that pak is getting 40 J35. SubHanallah on their aqal