Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

[Corax]

PGs will stay in LIFT/OCU role for few more years... good and cheap fighter trainer for new pilots

I actually think the PAF should acquire the FTC2000G Mountain Eagle for LIFT/OCU and even close air support/ground attack. It's cheap, Mach 1 capable, common engine/airframe with the F7s, and something our boys can thrash the hell out of to hone their skills and training. Plus it comes with latest advanced avionics.

 

[Ibbi32]

I have a feeling the PGs might hang around for a while for ground attack and COIN, decent firepower with those twin cannons. The Mirages should be replaced with more J10s, although we might lose the conventional/nuke capability with the Raptor series, there's more modern alternatives, and with other delivery systems, may not be an issue.

Id argue the biggest advantage of f-7s is not their limited ground attack capacity but rather their ability to perform backline air defense roles over airfields or against drones covering other platforms. Not to mention they are currently serving as LIFT

 

[Ibbi32]

They tried putting in SD-10s on the M3 equipped mirages but simply not worth it anymore. What ive heard is that despite all the efforts the amount of “Dham, Phat, tak tak tak…eeenk eenk ennk” noises on Mirages is now getting out of hand.

Is it purely airframe limitations because we should have enough spare parts to keep them flying otherwise

 

[safriz]

PGs will stay in LIFT/OCU role for few more years... good and cheap fighter trainer for new pilots

Mirages and A5 in the storage , should be converted into Kamikaze drones or sacrificial jamming or surveillance drones

 

[AeronautIR]

Mirages and A5 in the storage , should be converted into Kamikaze drones or sacrificial jamming or surveillance drones

Too expensive to convert them... we are already working on all types of drones in collaboration with Turkieye and China, as well as indigenous projects.

 

[AeronautIR]

I actually think the PAF should acquire the FTC2000G Mountain Eagle for LIFT/OCU and even close air support/ground attack. It's cheap, Mach 1 capable, common engine/airframe with the F7s, and something our boys can thrash the hell out of to hone their skills and training. Plus it comes with latest advanced avionics.

We evaluated L-15 and thought about FTC2000 too, but I think first priority is fighter jet induction like J-10C squadrons and J-35... we can fly PGs for a couple of years and retire them after induction of a dedicated LIFT platform.

 

[AeronautIR]

They tried putting in SD-10s on the M3 equipped mirages but simply not worth it anymore. What ive heard is that despite all the efforts the amount of “Dham, Phat, tak tak tak…eeenk eenk ennk” noises on Mirages is now getting out of hand.

that noise simulation
we saw 2 mirage crashes this year, 1 from OCU sqn and other of ROSE III night attack sqn... just waiting for new jets to replace them so no sense in doing any upgrade.

 

[Corax]

We evaluated L-15 and thought about FTC2000 too, but I think first priority is fighter jet induction like J-10C squadrons and J-35... we can fly PGs for a couple of years and retire them after induction of a dedicated LIFT platform.

Incidentally, the FTC2000 is what the original Super 7 project from the late 80s with Grumman would have probably ended up as if it had gone ahead. The Chinese decided to resurect the idea again in the last 90s/early 2000s in the guise of a trainer and light fighter instead. Myanmar actually uses the latest G model as a light fighter/attacker with full glass cockpit and a host of other avionics like RWR.

http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.com/p/trainers.html

 

[AeronautIR]

With only 20 right now and the powerful AESA it has, I really hope we just keep them focused on air to air and the pilots skill in BVR on edge

True... for now their role is air superiority only and I don't see J-10C in surface attack role before induction of second sqn.

 

[AeronautIR]

Incidentally, the FTC2000 is what the original Super 7 project from the late 80s with Grumman would have probably ended up as if it had gone ahead. The Chinese decided to resurect the idea again in the last 90s/early 2000s in the guise of a trainer and light fighter instead. Myanmar actually uses the latest G model as a light fighter/attacker with full glass cockpit and a host of other avionics like RWR.

http://chinese-military-aviation.blogspot.com/p/trainers.html

I think one of it crashed too or was shot down by rebels... Indians falsely claimed it to be a JF-17.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Time to upgrade and get new F16s

Maybe time to swap out all the Mirages and F7PGs with JF17Cs asap. Much cheaper and will bring more relative capability than a small number of new build F16s will bring with the same amount of money will bring.

 

[safriz]

Too expensive to convert them... we are already working on all types of drones in collaboration with Turkieye and China, as well as indigenous projects.

No drone can carry the amount of weight at speed and range a Mirrage can? It can be a cruise missile . 4 tons of explosives can be carried by Mirage 3 i guess, and the plane can go to 1200km with that sort of load.
Lesser weight will take it further.

 

[Ak01]

Bhai....i work maintenance.....as i have said before, a lot of parts in aerospace and industrial sectors are similar to same.......when it comes to washers and tubings you'd be hard pressed to find actual high quality ones that are completely local made.

Just take a trip to any market or any vendor that does cabling work....they'd quote you cables that are made in Saudia or channel patti/conduit that is made in GCC countries.....i mean such basic things yet are not 100% locally available......and ones that are available will have their materials origin somewhere from China.

Pakistan seriously lacks industrial depth.

you dont need to go local though, but lets say you do... its all subject to certification anyway, so really, if the locals want to meet the supply, have the bits certified and problem solved etc.

 

[rafale]

you dont need to go local though, but lets say you do... its all subject to certification anyway, so really, if the locals want to meet the supply, have the bits certified and problem solved etc.

That's the problem.....Pakistani industry is owned by men who work as cartels. Nothing of value in innovation comes. Just look at all the industrialists.....they only invest it businesses that they know will be 100 profitable from day one.....no risk taking appetite, even though they can risk it easily...........Pakistan has a very strong diplomatic effort in Europe, South East Asia and beyond....yet non of these Ch****** bother to go, sit with executives of global firms to ask them to invest in Pakistan to build industrial skills.

Let me give you an example, I work control systems in Power Generation industry in Pakistan. For large Gas and Steam turbines, we have some very very expensive spares and parts we need to keep and order. One of such parts is a Hydraulic Servo valve which controls very finely how much the Control Valve will open or close to allow steam into a turbine (the governor). Now, on one of our turbines, we suspected it was faulty and it was made by Bosch-Rexroth, a global behemoth in such servo valves manufacturing. We asked them to quote for spare or repair/refurbishment. You know what they said? They said either send it to our facility in Germany or to Ahmedabad in India. See the funny bit here? Send to fucking India to repair.

Now, it is something that can easily be made in Pakistan. Why can't our investors and businessmen ask Bosch to open up a factory and refurbishment business in Pakistan? Offer them export processing in tax free zones. You literally have the easiest and busiest sea route available open all year round. You can make these items here and export.

This is what China did, Korea did, Singapore did and it is what Malaysia and Thailand do.

It is not that Pakistan lacks anything, it lacks business people. It is an inherent desi problem.....to always play it safe.

Nothing of actual high tech value gets made in Pakistan, certifications toh dur ki baat hai. Most are happy with shitty ISO 140001 etc certifications to proudly display.

 

[White Privilege]

There are only 3 Mirage squadrons left, including OCU and ROSE upgraded...

Does it include the #50 sqn, which is hoarding the retired airframes, and for what purpose??