Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

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Will people please stop this nonsense of Chinese engines on the Kaan - i cant see how logically it could ever happen. The prototype has been designed with the current engines, and Turkeys home grown engine will attempt to match that performance at a minimum, to minimise the impact on the flight control software.
 
I would forget J-10C after we have two Sqds. Like the PLAAF have also moved in from it. We only have limited resources, go absolutely all in with KAAN and J-35. Even forget PFX, just stick with Block III standard for entire Block II fleet.

Retire the JF-17 Block Is, F-16s, Mirages. Maybe keep some F-7PGs for DACT and policing the Afghans.

Go all in for 4th Gen
4th gen platforms will form the bulk of most advanced platforms, due to costs, but also the need for highly adaptable platforms to carry stores externally. Even the PLAAF will operate its 4th Gen platforms until their lives exhaust, besides, the PAF doesn’t have that kind of budget and needs to create the right mix of platforms based on capabilities required.
 
Will people please stop this nonsense of Chinese engines on the Kaan - i cant see how logically it could ever happen. The prototype has been designed with the current engines, and Turkeys home grown engine will attempt to match that performance at a minimum, to minimise the impact on the flight control software.
I hope the Turks get there soon enough, but wanted to bring this up just in case it’s in consideration.
 
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Just for Syria, I'd make an exception.

Their situation right now basically centers on defence: from figuring out how to deal with the Russians to integrating disparate rebel leaders into one standing military to even their top leadership being either former insurgents or defected Syrian officers.

I guess sending a retired military officer could be the right move in this somewhat unique situation. It may signal that Pakistan's actual decision-makers want to get engaged in Syria.
 
I was thinking- we will retire 50 or so block 1’s, could be good for cheap exports to mig 21 operators. We could even get them to pay for upgrades like the Americans do with retire
I was thinking- we will retire 50 or so block 1’s, could be good for cheap exports to mig 21 operators. We could even get them to pay for upgrades like the Americans do with retired gear

American airframes and equipment tend to have longer lifespan. JF17 doesn't. The cost to replace its wings, landing gear and possibly engine doesn't justify selling it to anyone. You can essentially build a block 1 aircraft for the same cost.
 
Just for Syria, I'd make an exception.

Their situation right now basically centers on defence: from figuring out how to deal with the Russians to integrating disparate rebel leaders into one standing military to even their top leadership being either former insurgents or defected Syrian officers.

I guess sending a retired military officer could be the right move in this somewhat unique situation. It may signal that Pakistan's actual decision-makers want to get engaged in Syria.
The Syrian defense capability needs to be rebuilt from the scratch. So, a right decision for Pakistan has got much to offer....
 

Asia-Pacific​

Sri Lanka is adopting more American Bell 206 helicopters and a Pakistani Chengdu J-7 aircraft to enhance the country’s air force capabilities. The investment stipulates eight of the 206 choppers in their TH-57 Sea Ranger military derivative ordered from Washington DC and a single Chinese-made J-7 in its FT-7 export trainer variant from Islamabad. Sri Lanka Air Force Commander Air Marshal Udeni Rajapaksa confirmed that the Bell fleet is scheduled to arrive later this year, Colombo-based news agency Daily Mirror reported.
 
The Syrian defense capability needs to be rebuilt from the scratch. So, a right decision for Pakistan has got much to offer....
syria has the capability with trained manpower, which must be utilized fully after the mandatory vetting and weeding out of the culprits and criminals who were in league with asads.
the worst thing would be to disband the army, navy and the airforce n then try to build it all from scratch....as that model has failed every where n come back to bite where the sun don't shine.
 
If we ever had to plan for their "planed" Orbat we would have to be the size of USAF.

10 years ago this was also due to be their planned Orbat (without AMCA), and they are left with just 1.5 MK1 Sqds that are not even all FOC.

Right now even if they have all of the above it may take at least another 15 years (by their own admission) to gain all the above, possibly another 20 years if you include the AMCA.

Obviously the downfall of all the amazing planning if conveniantly forgetting the PAF also plans and modernises......

Oh this is the modest version of what they and a retired Indian Air Force chief mentioned, referencing the 60’s era TATA report about having 65 (60-70) squadrons and a recent mention by the ex chief of the IAF for 20-25 of those squadrons to be UCAVs.

But you’re right about the PAF planning as well. With the interoperability with the PLAAF, in a war time situation, it would be much easier for the PLAAF to paint their UCAVs in the PAF colors and send them to Pakistan to support their ally, flying UCAVs out of PAF bases (via satellite control from China), and overwhelming IAF plans. Good experience for the PLAAF and good backup for the PAF. The PAF can stick to a lean 20-24 manned squadrons and perhaps a further 6 unmanned squadrons, with the rest of its resources devoted to other branches as well as economic development. PLAAF deployments in Sichuan, Tibet and Xinjiang, as well as the rebuilding of the Bangladeshi Air Force should tie up the Indian Air Force as well.
You'll notice something interesting...

Through the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, the Indians didn't have much trouble with procurement. They could always tap the Soviets for new and capable jets - and in massive numbers. For ex., MiG-21s, Su-7s, MiG-23s, MiG-27s, and Su-30s.

Even if a Western-sourced or even indigenous program stalls, the Russians were always there ready to ramp up and fill in the gaps.

This was a headache for the PAF because no matter what we could do, there'd be no way to 1:1 match the scale at which India can induct modern jets. Even at a time when major US aid was a factor, the PAF still couldn't do it.

What changed?

Why is there now a sense that the PAF can potentially pull ahead?

It's China.

Up to this point, India had the advantage of leveraging this incredibly industrial and fairly advanced aerospace supplier. Pakistan never had that, at least not for the same duration and consistency India did.

From the early 2000s things started to slowly shift because the Russians became less and less efficient, and the Chinese ramped up. Not only that, China also took the lead in technology advancement across the board.

So, while Pakistan can now shop at literally the world's largest and most efficient manufacturer of almost everything, the Indians lost Russia as a key supplier. And while the US can fill in for sure, the scale, efficiency, and cost the Soviets brought isn't there. And Europe is even more distant in that regard.

The only bottleneck Pakistan has right now is its economy and fiscal discipline; it is the only thing that'll sink it. But even then, the scalability China provides and its ability to reach even lower price points while still providing capability will help -- and that's a thorn unlike any other for India.
 
You'll notice something interesting...

Through the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, the Indians didn't have much trouble with procurement. They could always tap the Soviets for new and capable jets - and in massive numbers. For ex., MiG-21s, Su-7s, MiG-23s, MiG-27s, and Su-30s.

Even if a Western-sourced or even indigenous program stalls, the Russians were always there ready to ramp up and fill in the gaps.

This was a headache for the PAF because no matter what we could do, there'd be no way to 1:1 match the scale at which India can induct modern jets. Even at a time when major US aid was a factor, the PAF still couldn't do it.

What changed?

Why is there now a sense that the PAF can potentially pull ahead?

It's China.

Up to this point, India had the advantage of leveraging this incredibly industrial and fairly advanced aerospace supplier. Pakistan never had that, at least not for the same duration and consistency India did.

From the early 2000s things started to slowly shift because the Russians became less and less efficient, and the Chinese ramped up. Not only that, China also took the lead in technology advancement across the board.

So, while Pakistan can now shop at literally the world's largest and most efficient manufacturer of almost everything, the Indians lost Russia as a key supplier. And while the US can fill in for sure, the scale, efficiency, and cost the Soviets brought isn't there. And Europe is even more distant in that regard.

The only bottleneck Pakistan has right now is its economy and fiscal discipline; it is the only thing that'll sink it. But even then, the scalability China provides and its ability to reach even lower price points while still providing capability will help -- and that's a thorn unlike any other for India.


You can say Russia may lag behind the US, Europe, and even China in many areas of technology, but they still possess significant technological capabilities. Their offerings can be competitive, if not superior, to those currently being acquired by Pakistan. India, with its substantial market and potential for investment, could leverage Russia's need for capital to secure advantageous deals and access cutting-edge technology.

In my view, while the 'Make in India' initiative is crucial, it should not be the sole focus, particularly due to potential political motivations. India should explore strategic partnerships with countries like Russia, recognizing that not all technologies need to be manufactured domestically. This approach allows India to access specialized expertise and advanced technologies more rapidly, while simultaneously fostering domestic innovation and manufacturing capabilities.

In my opinion, the Indian Navy has demonstrated a better balance in this regard compared to the Indian Air Force and the Indian Army. The latter two branches particularly IAF could benefit from learning from the Indian Navy's approach.
 
You can say Russia may lag behind the US, Europe, and even China in many areas of technology, but they still possess significant technological capabilities. Their offerings can be competitive, if not superior, to those currently being acquired by Pakistan. India, with its substantial market and potential for investment, could leverage Russia's need for capital to secure advantageous deals and access cutting-edge technology.

In my view, while the 'Make in India' initiative is crucial, it should not be the sole focus, particularly due to potential political motivations. India should explore strategic partnerships with countries like Russia, recognizing that not all technologies need to be manufactured domestically. This approach allows India to access specialized expertise and advanced technologies more rapidly, while simultaneously fostering domestic innovation and manufacturing capabilities.

In my opinion, the Indian Navy has demonstrated a better balance in this regard compared to the Indian Air Force and the Indian Army. The latter two branches particularly IAF could benefit from learning from the Indian Navy's approach.
That's true, but the ability to bring that technology R&D to the production line is a big question mark. Of all the industrial giants, I think China is doing the best here by far. For all intents and purposes, India is facing a global economic engine, and the support it should be getting from the other engine (USA) isn't there as America itself is trying to figure out how to match the Chinese.

It's India's sheer luck right now that Pakistan didn't evolve into an industrial force. IMO, if Pakistan could even reach 1/4 of what India can do, then India would likely just consider forming a bloc with China and Pakistan as any opposition at that point would not be worth it.
 

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