Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

That's true, but the ability to bring that technology R&D to the production line is a big question mark. Of all the industrial giants, I think China is doing the best here by far. For all intents and purposes, India is facing a global economic engine, and the support it should be getting from the other engine (USA) isn't there as America itself is trying to figure out how to match the Chinese.

It's India's sheer luck right now that Pakistan didn't evolve into an industrial force. IMO, if Pakistan could even reach 1/4 of what India can do, then India would likely just consider forming a bloc with China and Pakistan as any opposition at that point would not be worth it.

پتہ نہیں کب تک یہ دونوں نااہل اور نکمے (پاکستان اور بھارت) ایک دوسرے کی نالائقی کا فائدہ اٹھاتے رہیں گے اور کچھ نہیں کریں گے۔

 

[Yasser76]

That's true, but the ability to bring that technology R&D to the production line is a big question mark. Of all the industrial giants, I think China is doing the best here by far. For all intents and purposes, India is facing a global economic engine, and the support it should be getting from the other engine (USA) isn't there as America itself is trying to figure out how to match the Chinese.

It's India's sheer luck right now that Pakistan didn't evolve into an industrial force. IMO, if Pakistan could even reach 1/4 of what India can do, then India would likely just consider forming a bloc with China and Pakistan as any opposition at that point would not be worth it.

Spot on post.

The light speed in terms of industrial capability and tech development by China has caught everyone off guard. Just sheer luck Pakistan has been a very close ally for almost the entire existance of the PRC

In 70s they gave hundreds of F-6s, in 90s and 00s hundreds of F-7s, then helped us with hundreds of JF-17s.

Now we live in the world of 5th/6th Gen. As you say, a strong economic recoevery and development of our industrial base, along with close partnership with China will make us unbeatable vis a vis India.

China is aiming to surpass the US in numbers and technology. India simply will not be able to compete, even if it tries to buy the very best in limited quantity from the West.

I knew the game was over for them in terms of air superiority when the J-35 and the 6th gen fighters flew.

US and Europe will now have a strict focus on their 6th Gen, the numbers will be limited and India will be VERY lucky to get even small numbers of them and they will be export variants

 

[FuturePAF]

You'll notice something interesting...

Through the 1960s, 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s, the Indians didn't have much trouble with procurement. They could always tap the Soviets for new and capable jets - and in massive numbers. For ex., MiG-21s, Su-7s, MiG-23s, MiG-27s, and Su-30s.

Even if a Western-sourced or even indigenous program stalls, the Russians were always there ready to ramp up and fill in the gaps.

This was a headache for the PAF because no matter what we could do, there'd be no way to 1:1 match the scale at which India can induct modern jets. Even at a time when major US aid was a factor, the PAF still couldn't do it.

What changed?

Why is there now a sense that the PAF can potentially pull ahead?

It's China.

Up to this point, India had the advantage of leveraging this incredibly industrial and fairly advanced aerospace supplier. Pakistan never had that, at least not for the same duration and consistency India did.

From the early 2000s things started to slowly shift because the Russians became less and less efficient, and the Chinese ramped up. Not only that, China also took the lead in technology advancement across the board.

So, while Pakistan can now shop at literally the world's largest and most efficient manufacturer of almost everything, the Indians lost Russia as a key supplier. And while the US can fill in for sure, the scale, efficiency, and cost the Soviets brought isn't there. And Europe is even more distant in that regard.

The only bottleneck Pakistan has right now is its economy and fiscal discipline; it is the only thing that'll sink it. But even then, the scalability China provides and its ability to reach even lower price points while still providing capability will help -- and that's a thorn unlike any other for India.

Our bottlenecks are also legal and political/diplomatic/our global reputation, which feed into economic opportunities.

Yes, China and to a lesser extent, but by no means less important, is Türkiye. We get access and experience with both “eastern” and “western” weapons and ecosystems.

India can go to the US, but they attach strings. The French don’t produce in high enough volumes and overcharge. The Israelis just customize others tech.

I listen to a recent vlog of an Indian (defense) journalist, suggesting India buy equipment like the F-16 manufacturing setup, and port over the expertise. But he admitted that these companies are not likely to sell tech when they want to sell products.

For all the decades of knocking the JF-17, the Indians have to admit Pakistan stuck with it, and China moved up the tech ladder, such that now the PFX-Alpha; the final planned version of the JF-17 should be easily a match for their LCA MK.1A, and the J-10 easily a match if not better than their Mk. 2.

With the support of Chinese firm, if Pakistan can become sincere with itself (end the games of brinkmanship for power and creating a predictable and just system for all Pakistanis), and invest in itself and its people, growing the economy at 10+%, we can turn around not just the procurement issue, but international diplomacy, and solve so many of our problems.

 

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[Fatman17]

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Pakistan Promotes the JF-17C Thunder to Bangladesh​

Pakistan Defence Industry by Bilal Khan

Bilal Khan​

On January 15, the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) announced through a press video that it will invite a technical team from the Bangladesh Air Force (BAF) in the near future to evaluate the JF-17C Thunder Block-3.

The announcement came following a visit by a Bangladeshi military delegation led by Lt. Gen. S.M Kamrul Hassan, the Principal Staff Officer of the Armed Forces Division.

The invitation signifies a step in the apparent thaw in defence ties between the two countries after the fall of the government of Sheikh Hasina in August 2024. According to the PAF’s press release, the delegation expressed interest in Pakistan’s locally produced solutions, including the JF-17 Thunder.

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Jointly manufactured by Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) and the Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC), the JF-17C is the latest variant of the Thunder, the PAF’s mainstay multirole fighter.

The JF-17C Block-3 incorporates several new generation subsystems, most notably the KLJ-7E active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar and helmet-mounted display and sight (HMD/S) system that provide improved long-range and short-range air-to-air combat capabilities, respectively.

The JF-17C’s new air-to-air missiles include the PL-15E and PL-10E. The former offers a stated range of 145 km, while the latter can be slaved to the HMD/S to offer beyond-the-cockpit engagement options to the pilot when in within-visual-range (WVR) engagements.

The PAF’s JF-17C are reportedly powered by the Klimov RD-93MA turbofan engine, a new version of the RD-93 offering improved thrust and reliability[1]. PAC is also marketing the RD-93MA as an option alongside the older RD-93 to customers potentially interested in the JF-17.

PAC is also integrating a wider variety of air-to-surface munitions to the JF-17, such as the AZB series of precision-guided bombs (PGB) and Taimoor air-launched cruise missile (ALCM), among others. Including these munitions to the JF-17 would significantly extend the fighter’s strike reach.

[1] Alan Warnes. “JF-17C Makes Public Debut.” Air Forces Monthly. January 2024

Comments and Analysis​

It seems that the main driver of involving Bangladesh in the JF-17 is the PAF leadership, which is seeking more buyers for the Thunder. Currently, PAC is focused on manufacturing JF-17Cs for the Azerbaijan Air Force, which recently confirmed ordering an undisclosed number of Thunders.

When viewed at the most basic level, it is clear that the PAF leadership has an active interest in keeping PAC’s production line warm through export orders. This approach would allow the PAF to recoup some of the overhead costs of the JF-17 through foreign currency gains and buy time as the Thunder’s next steps materialize. These new programs include the JF-17 Operational Capability Upgrade (OCU), an apparent mid-life-upgrade for the Thunder, and the more nebulous PFX program.

Thus, a potential BAF JF-17C order could add one to two years to PAC’s production line, thus extending Thunder production closer to the late 2020s. By then, the PAF might begin the work of overhauling and/or rebuilding its own older JF-17s, thereby initiating PAC’s work for the early-to-mid 2030s.

 

[Fatman17]

Bangladesh could purchase up to 32 Pakistani JF-17 Thunder fighter jets to modernize its Air Force​

• 20 Jan, 2025 - 10:05
• Defense News Aerospace 2025

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As reported by The Express Tribune on January 16, 2025, Bangladesh has officially expressed interest in the JF-17 Thunder, a fighter aircraft jointly developed by Pakistan and China, following a high-level Bangladeshi defense delegation's visit to Pakistan on January 15, 2025. Led by Lieutenant General SM Qamarul Hassan, Principal Staff Officer of the Armed Forces Division, the delegation met with Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Chief, Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmad Babar Sidhu, at the Air Headquarters in Islamabad. Discussions focused on strengthening military ties, exploring joint training opportunities, and the potential procurement of the JF-17.

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

Bangladesh could purchase up to 32 Pakistani JF-17 Thunder fighter jets to modernize its Air Force​

• 20 Jan, 2025 - 10:05
• Defense News Aerospace 2025

---

As reported by The Express Tribune on January 16, 2025, Bangladesh has officially expressed interest in the JF-17 Thunder, a fighter aircraft jointly developed by Pakistan and China, following a high-level Bangladeshi defense delegation's visit to Pakistan on January 15, 2025. Led by Lieutenant General SM Qamarul Hassan, Principal Staff Officer of the Armed Forces Division, the delegation met with Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Chief, Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmad Babar Sidhu, at the Air Headquarters in Islamabad. Discussions focused on strengthening military ties, exploring joint training opportunities, and the potential procurement of the JF-17.
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Although this news has the potential to cause severe butt-hurt to some Bakhts, the actual chances of the JF-17 being adopted by Bangladesh in their air force are very slim.

 

[Fatman17]

Although this news has the potential to cause severe butt-hurt to some Bakhts, the actual chances of the JF-17 being adopted by Bangladesh in their air force are very slim.

Let's wait and see. There is the option for delivery from China with the proceeds shared 50:50

 

[The SC]

Türkiye and Pakistan establish a joint factory to produce Kaan stealth aircraft


Arab Defense Website, January 21, 2025: Strategic cooperation between Turkey and Pakistan in the defense sector was strengthened with the announcement of the establishment of a joint factory to produce KAAN stealth aircraft.

The launch of this joint factory is considered to have a strategic impact on both countries.

On the one hand, Türkiye will be able to increase production of the fighter jet at a low cost, which is a major advantage for its defense and export policies.

On the other hand, Pakistan will have access to advanced technology, significantly enhancing its air capabilities while stimulating its domestic defense industry.

The cooperation also aims to facilitate the transfer of critical technology, enabling Pakistan to develop its skills in designing and producing advanced combat aircraft, and reduce its dependence on foreign suppliers.

In addition to the production of Qaan fighter aircraft, discussions are said to have taken place regarding the joint production of other military equipment, especially unmanned reconnaissance attack aircraft.

Kaan is a fifth generation fighter aircraft developed by the Turkish Aerospace Industry (TUSAŞ). It is designed to replace the old F-16 aircraft in the Turkish Air Force.

The Kaan aircraft features new technology that enables it to compete with the world's best fifth-generation fighter aircraft such as the Lockheed Martin F-35A, Shenyang J-35A, and Sukhoi Su-57.

 

[studsmart]

KAAN has a huge fuselage surface are to have multiple weapon bays

 

[Haji Thanos]

KAAN has a huge fuselage surface are to have multiple weapon bays

only 6 AA missiles internally as of now quoted by Temel Kotil
2 tandem WBs with 2 AAMs each and 2 side bays with 1 AAM each

 

[Fatman17]

Saab Erieye

 

[Fatman17]

 

[Fatman17]

J-10CE

 

[Yasser76]

The UAE Mirage 2000s and the Qatari/French Rafales will be very useful training for our JF-17Cs...

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