Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

[Pradotlc]

it was already released by Americans and others.they had validated the claim, but they didn't find anything—even media outlet in USA reported with the pic with no damage.

PAF claims destruction of the S400 radar data systems .. not the whole set.

the proof was in the pudding S400 could not stop PAF to do what ever it wanted.. and subsequent to that India approached Americans for a ceasefire.

Pakistan pounded India like there was no tomorrow.

 

[Pradotlc]

IAF seems so confident with Rafale that they want to order 114 more !
Some french sources said it succeed dodging most of the PL15 fired, this is why some were found intact in the ground.

And no, India has not the sole choice of purchasing Rafale. F21, SH18, EF2000, Su35, Mig35, Gripen E are viable options. USA made hard pressure to sell one of its birds.

I guess more rafales would help...

PAF: It Is going to be a target rich environment.

 

[rafale]

A few things:

• SPECTRA is a multi-spectral electronic warfare (EW) suite with radar warning, missile and laser warning, digital jamming, and decoys.
• EW systems similar to SPECTRA exist on Eurofighter Typhoon (Praetorian DASS), F-15EX (EPAWSS), and F-16 (AIDEWS) which combine radar warning, missile warning, laser warning, jamming, and decoy dispensers.
• It relies on detecting missile radar emissions early, jamming them with Digital Radio Frequency Memory (DRFM) jamming, and using decoys for protection.
• Against a PL-15 using datalink guidance, the missile keeps its radar seeker off during the midcourse, so SPECTRA cannot detect or jam it early.
• The PL-15 activates its frequency-hopping AESA radar seeker only about 5-8 seconds before impact (terminal phase), leaving SPECTRA too little time to react effectively.
• Homing-on-jam (HOJ) capability of the missile means jamming can even guide it closer, nullifying barrage jamming defenses during terminal phase.
• Without networked sensor support or airborne early warning, SPECTRA’s standalone effectiveness diminishes drastically.
• PL-15’s datalink midcourse guidance and late seeker activation largely negate the traditional advantages offered by Rafale’s SPECTRA system.

Thanks for the detailed post. So it only proves further that any counter measure can be easily overriden and bypassed with good tactics and equally potent counter measures. The dual data link and LPI Seekers make even the new Rafale F4s pretty much obsolete and cannot fly solo and carry out omni role ground strike and Air to Air combat, pretty much obsoleting the Dassault brochure and hype.

No
But what is important is that Dassault marketing overhypes things and built an aura. That was shattered.

I will reiterate - PAF loved the Rafale as well if price wasn’t so exorbitant

You are right, Rafale was good. But the time when PAF was seriously looking at it, 2000s, PAF had no other option. 15 years later you have Chinese Industrial might.

This makes one thing clear, moving forward PAF should get the V upgrades to existing 45 or so BLK 52 F-16s to increase the number of 150k+ BVR range jets and the 12000 hr life extensions. Procure more J-10CEs. That covers anything India can buy in the next 5-8 years horizon since India cannot get 5th gen that soon since they have no options other than F-35.

PAF should take time to consolidate AD structure and manage finances to finally procure J-35s when they are fully mature along with upgraded data links.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@Pradotlc

Pakistan pounded India like there was no tomorrow.

Pounded it so thoroughly that there were satellite images to show for the damages. Sub mitti mein mil gaya.

Regards

 

[Xestan]

The one question on my mind since May 6–10, 2025, is this: We were on high alert and had observed the deployment of large Indian jets to the northern bases, and we remained alert on the day of the IAF mission. So, when they launched air-launched missiles, why didn't we intercept them and instead allow them to hit our nine sites? I am aware that the response time for interception was very short, but does that mean that whenever we are attacked by air-launched missiles such as SCALP-EG, BrahMos, or HAMMER, we will be unable to intercept them due to the very limited time available? Or did we deliberately let them hit so that we could later justify our own actions?

on that 6/7th may we intercepted none? is it due to our own assets were also airborne ready to target the IAF assets that released payloads? to avoid our own attrition? or is there any other reason for zero interception at that night?

@Oscar @arslank01 @JamD @Bilal @Quwa @farooqbhai @Panzerkiel @side-winder

As per my discussion with an Air Force guy in an official event recently, Rafales and MKIs which launched SCALPs and Brahmos were out of range. They were flying from an airbase in center and then launching the missiles and immediately going cold.

 

[rafale]

View attachment 147208


article says otherwise!

Your underlined parts only prove that both SPECTRA and METEOR are over hyped.....and while Americans rapidly released funds to fast tracked AIM 260 development and just yesterday Raytheon confirmed the AIM120 got longest AMRAAM kill ever, they haven't yet quoted the range at which it took the kill in testing, but it was due to improved software and guidance algorithms. So USAF is taking it very seriously because a proper 150KM+ BVR kill is now proven beyond doubt (thanks to PAF outsmarting bhindians). Meteor will again be subject to delays and production issues, so even with new Rafales, IAF is pretty much f***ed for the short term.

i can only imagine that newer PL15 versions would have been software optimized as well for beyond 200km range.

Only if Pakistan as a whole could show as much competency as PAF did in recent years.........just boggles my mind everytime.

 

[rafale]

Hi,

its not the 1950's anymore. Missiles dont need to HIT the target. Thats what prox fuzing is for. If you look at the missiles, none have their warheads, nor their seekers intact, instead, all that is found is spent motor casing...

You are really trying to reason with Bhindians?

Itna bura waqt agaya hai bhai?

 

[Falcon26]

There's a reason many private satellite imagery firms didn't want to release images from 11th May of Adampur AB. Indians claim that the incoming CM-400s were shot down, but they have still not showed any pictures of the destroyed missiles. S-400 was not moved from Adampur, because Modi went to take selfies with it the next day. So, something did happen there. Maybe with time, we'd see some clarity.

How come the Pakistan military didn’t release any satellite imagery? It has access to be both indigenous and Chinese satellites for BDA.

Another false claim by Pakistan which mimics India’s well documented misinformation regarding battle losses.

 

[Michael]

You are right, Rafale was good. But the time when PAF was seriously looking at it, 2000s, PAF had no other option. 15 years later you have Chinese Industrial might.

During the 1980s, during the honeymoon period between China and the United States, major Western arms dealers actively marketed weapons to China. Among them was Dassault.

In 1986, at the Beijing International Defense Technology Exhibition (ASIANDEX '86), Dassault promoted the Rafale fighter jet to China. Their Chinese-language promotional flyer prominently read, "1995年，就在眼前(1995.It's right before your eyes!)". ------ Dassault promised China that they would complete delivery before 1995.

But, China ultimately chose the Su-27 fighter......

BTW. Even if China had chosen the Rafale fighter, it would never have become a reality. ------ After the Tiananmen Square incident in 1989, Western countries imposed comprehensive sanctions on China......

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Source/link? Where's from? Wikipedia?

source is Alan Warnes articles published in October issue and shared here on the forum by the mod

https://defencepk.com/forums/threads/understanding-the-rafale-kills-alan-warnes-from-afm.26874/

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

As per my discussion with an Air Force guy in an official event recently, Rafales and MKIs which launched SCALPs and Brahmos were out of range. They were flying from an airbase in center and then launching the missiles and immediately going cold.

But how could we didnt intercept the SCALPs and Brahmos on the early hours of 7th may? however we were able to intercept them on later days?

 

[rafale]

During the 1980s, during the honeymoon period between China and the United States, major Western arms dealers actively marketed weapons to China. Among them was Dassault.

In 1986, at the Beijing International Defense Technology Exhibition (ASIANDEX '86), Dassault promoted the Rafale fighter jet to China. Their Chinese-language promotional flyer prominently read, "1995年，就在眼前(1995.It's right before your eyes!)". ------ Dassault promised China that they would complete delivery before 1995.
View attachment 147276
But, China ultimately chose the Su-27 fighter......

BTW. Even if China had chosen the Rafale fighter, it would never have become a reality. ------ After the Tiananmen Square incident in 1989, Western countries imposed comprehensive sanctions on China......

Brother I have nothing but respect for Chinese policy and decision makers and Chinese people who have made China into an extremely competent and Industrialized country.
Only if Pakistan could get its act together and learn from China like it does in Defense related matters and procurement.

 

[Panzerkiel]

The one question on my mind since May 6–10, 2025, is this: We were on high alert and had observed the deployment of large Indian jets to the northern bases, and we remained alert on the day of the IAF mission. So, when they launched air-launched missiles, why didn't we intercept them and instead allow them to hit our nine sites? I am aware that the response time for interception was very short, but does that mean that whenever we are attacked by air-launched missiles such as SCALP-EG, BrahMos, or HAMMER, we will be unable to intercept them due to the very limited time available? Or did we deliberately let them hit so that we could later justify our own actions?

on that 6/7th may we intercepted none? is it due to our own assets were also airborne ready to target the IAF assets that released payloads? to avoid our own attrition? or is there any other reason for zero interception at that night?

@Oscar @arslank01 @JamD @Bilal @Quwa @farooqbhai @Panzerkiel @side-winder

Just a small answer...IAF didn't just come on 6/7 night.... They came almost every night on the previous days as well.... So it's only once the projectiles are in the air that you can say that tonight is the night.

 

[rafale]

How come the Pakistan military didn’t release any satellite imagery? It has access to be both indigenous and Chinese satellites for BDA.

Another false claim by Pakistan which mimics India’s well documented misinformation regarding battle losses.

What makes you think PAF won't release it later when they absolutely want to screw IAF up?

What makes you think PAF would want to stoop so low to the level of psychopath IAF?

BDA doesn't always mean satellite imagery, and Indians want imagery more than anything because they are tuned to bollywood visuals where call sign Patty shoots down F-16s in within visual range.

 

[Michael]

Brother I have nothing but respect for Chinese policy and decision makers and Chinese people who have made China into an extremely competent and Industrialized country.

This road has been arduous. Whenever Chinese people recall the hardships they once endured, we can't help but shed tears.