Pakistan begins commercial shipbuilding after four decades, official says

[Feroze]

Need to build Pakistan in such a way that, China and Saudi Arabia start caring for Pakistan. This will only happen when we can offer those two countries something they need.

 

[Pakistan First]

The “Gwadar was Pakistan’s dream since the 1960s” narrative is adorable like a bedtime story for people who mistake talking for doing.
Pakistan didn’t “conceive” Gwadar; Pakistan daydreamed about Gwadar the same way it daydreams about making Lahore look like Paris. Spoiler: neither happened.

1. Pakistan’s Gwadar ‘vision’ was a 50‑year nap.

Yes, Pakistan bought Gwadar in 1958.
Yes, Bhutto pitched it to the U.S. in 1973.
And yes, governments scribbled “Gwadar Port” in planning documents in the 1990s.

But here’s the punchline….
Pakistan built nothing except a tiny fish harbor in 1988.
That’s not vision, that’s procrastination with a flag on it.

2. Bhutto begging the U.S. Navy wasn’t ‘strategy.’ It was ‘please build this for us.’

If Gwadar was a national priority, Pakistan would’ve built it.
Instead, Bhutto offered the U.S. Navy access to Gwadar like a clearance sale.
The U.S. still preferred Iran’s Chabahar.
That’s how “strategic” Pakistan’s pitch was.

3. The 1990s plans were the usual Pakistani specialty: paperwork with zero execution.

Sanctions didn’t stop Pakistan from building:

• nuclear weapons
• motorways
• airports
• naval bases
• expansions at Karachi and Port Qasim

But somehow Gwadar was “impossible” because of sanctions?
Right. And Lahore is “Paris.”

4. China didn’t join a Pakistani dream, China filled a Pakistani vacuum.

Musharraf “pitched” Gwadar to China because Pakistan had no money, no capacity, and no plan.
China provided the engineering, the strategy, and the bulk of the financing.
Pakistan contributed… patriotic speeches.

And let’s drop the fairy tale about “iron brother.”
China’s loans are not charity.
They’re high‑interest, collateral‑heavy, and never forgiven loans, only refinanced. China is a ruthless businessman who brings a calculator, not flowers.

5. Lahore‑Paris syndrome: Pakistan’s national hobby of delusion.

Billions were poured into Lahore to “make it Paris.”
After all that spending, Lahore still can’t compete with mid‑tier Iranian cities like Shiraz or Mashhad, let alone Tehran.
But sure, tell me more about how Pakistan “conceived” Gwadar.

Having said that, recent statements of government is even strange, Pakistan will hit $100B exports by 2035.
Sure, and I’ll be the next CEO of SpaceX.

Forum isn't a dick measuring contest. If you were wrong on a specific part then simply acknowledging that and moving on is the best thing. That's how you will learn things.

You specifically wrote "Pakistan did not envisioned it". That is plain and simply wrong factually. Pakistan bought Gwadar for a purpose. secondly General Musharraf approached the Chinese and pitched Gawadar to them. It was NOT the other way around. So it would not have a big deal to accept your mistake and move on. Why aknowledging is so difficult for some people ?? I spent my precious time to put up facts. I specifically mentioned in my reply that "partly correct but wrong on conceived part".

The funds on nuclear etc, well dear survival takes always precedent. Nukes were matter of our survival. That is not a discussion anyways. I am not even discussing Why we didn't built it, We should have done this or that. That is not even part of my discussion. I was very specific and very targetted on part of "conception". It was Pakistan's idea and not the chinese. God! it has become a sin to share knowledge. Healthy way is to say Thanks for correcting that bit and move on.

I had said in the past in naval forums that we never prioritized naval bases and more ports. We should have done that. I have also talked about importance of these. But That is NOT a discussion point here. Point was very specific about "conception". It was 100% Pakistan's conceived. We bought it, We approached American, We approached Chinese. It leaves not a shred of doubt about this point anymore. Learn and move on please. Its not that hard. Thank you

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

Forum isn't a dick measuring contest. If you were wrong on a specific part then simply acknowledging that and moving on is the best thing. That's how you will learn things.

You specifically wrote "Pakistan did not envisioned it". That is plain and simply wrong factually. Pakistan bought Gwadar for a purpose. secondly General Musharraf approached the Chinese and pitched Gawadar to them. It was NOT the other way around. So it would not have a big deal to accept your mistake and move on. Why aknowledging is so difficult for some people ?? I spent my precious time to put up facts. I specifically mentioned in my reply that "partly correct but wrong on conceived part".

The funds on nuclear etc, well dear survival takes always precedent. Nukes were matter of our survival. That is not a discussion anyways. I am not even discussing Why we didn't built it, We should have done this or that. That is not even part of my discussion. I was very specific and very targetted on part of "conception". It was Pakistan's idea and not the chinese. God! it has become a sin to share knowledge. Healthy way is to say Thanks for correcting that bit and move on.

I had said in the past in naval forums that we never prioritized naval bases and more ports. We should have done that. I have also talked about importance of these. But That is NOT a discussion point here. Point was very specific about "conception". It was 100% Pakistan's conceived. We bought it, We approached American, We approached Chinese. It leaves not a shred of doubt about this point anymore. Learn and move on please. Its not that hard. Thank you

You’re treating my sentence “Pakistan did not envision it” as if I claimed Pakistan never bought Gwadar, never talked about Gwadar, never pitched Gwadar, never drafted a plan, never wrote a memo, never held a meeting.

That’s not what I said.
And your entire reply is built on misreading that one line.

“Pakistan did not envision it” refers to the modern deep‑sea port, not the land purchase

Buying Gwadar in 1958 was a territorial acquisition, not a port blueprint.
Pakistan buys land all the time, it doesn’t mean it envisioned the infrastructure that eventually gets built on it.

Owning coastline is not equal to envisioning a deep‑sea port.

Pitching Gwadar to the U.S. is not “vision”, it’s outsourcing

Bhutto offering Gwadar to the U.S. Navy is not evidence of Pakistani conception.
It’s evidence Pakistan wanted someone else to build and operate it.

If Pakistan truly “envisioned” the port:

• it would have funded it
• it would have planned it
• it would have built it

Instead, Pakistan tried to give it away.

That’s not conception.
That’s dependency.

Musharraf pitching China proves Pakistan lacked capacity, not that Pakistan had a vision

You keep repeating “Musharraf approached China” like it’s a knockout argument.

It’s not.

It proves Pakistan had:

• no money
• no engineering capability
• no maritime strategy
• no industrial corridor
• no logistics plan
• no ability to build a deep‑sea port

China didn’t join a Pakistani vision.
China replaced Pakistan’s inability to execute one.

You’re confusing talking about something with envisioning something

Pakistan has “conceived” hundreds of projects:

• Kalabagh Dam
• Pasni Port
• Ormara Port
• Jiwani Port
• Coastal industrial zones
• Steel Mills revival
• National shipping expansion

None of them exist.

Pakistan’s elite are experts at conceptualizing things they never build.

Gwadar was just another item on the national wish list until China stepped in.

You’re demanding I “acknowledge a mistake” that I didn’t make

You wrote:

“Why acknowledging is so difficult?”

Because you didn’t correct anything.

You corrected a point I never made.

My line:

“Pakistan did not envision it.”

means:

Pakistan did not envision the modern Gwadar deep‑sea port that China actually built.

That statement is 100% correct.

Pakistan envisioned a dream.
China envisioned a port.
China funded it.
China engineered it.
China built it.
China operates it.

Those are not the same thing.

You narrowed the debate to “conception” because execution destroys your argument

You said:

“I was very specific and very targeted on part of conception.”

Exactly, because the moment we talk about:

• planning
• funding
• prioritization
• engineering
• logistics
• maritime strategy
• industrial corridors
• execution

your argument collapses.

So you zoomed into the only part Pakistan actually did:
talk about Gwadar.

Talking is not envisioning.
Pitching is not planning.
Buying land is not building a port.

 

[Pakistan First]

You’re treating my sentence “Pakistan did not envision it” as if I claimed Pakistan never bought Gwadar, never talked about Gwadar, never pitched Gwadar, never drafted a plan, never wrote a memo, never held a meeting.

That’s not what I said.
And your entire reply is built on misreading that one line.

“Pakistan did not envision it” refers to the modern deep‑sea port, not the land purchase

Buying Gwadar in 1958 was a territorial acquisition, not a port blueprint.
Pakistan buys land all the time, it doesn’t mean it envisioned the infrastructure that eventually gets built on it.

Owning coastline is not equal to envisioning a deep‑sea port.

Pitching Gwadar to the U.S. is not “vision”, it’s outsourcing

Bhutto offering Gwadar to the U.S. Navy is not evidence of Pakistani conception.
It’s evidence Pakistan wanted someone else to build and operate it.

If Pakistan truly “envisioned” the port:

• it would have funded it
• it would have planned it
• it would have built it

Instead, Pakistan tried to give it away.

That’s not conception.
That’s dependency.

Musharraf pitching China proves Pakistan lacked capacity, not that Pakistan had a vision

You keep repeating “Musharraf approached China” like it’s a knockout argument.

It’s not.

It proves Pakistan had:

• no money
• no engineering capability
• no maritime strategy
• no industrial corridor
• no logistics plan
• no ability to build a deep‑sea port

China didn’t join a Pakistani vision.
China replaced Pakistan’s inability to execute one.

You’re confusing talking about something with envisioning something

Pakistan has “conceived” hundreds of projects:

• Kalabagh Dam
• Pasni Port
• Ormara Port
• Jiwani Port
• Coastal industrial zones
• Steel Mills revival
• National shipping expansion

None of them exist.

Pakistan’s elite are experts at conceptualizing things they never build.

Gwadar was just another item on the national wish list until China stepped in.

You’re demanding I “acknowledge a mistake” that I didn’t make

You wrote:

“Why acknowledging is so difficult?”

Because you didn’t correct anything.

You corrected a point I never made.

My line:

“Pakistan did not envision it.”

means:

Pakistan did not envision the modern Gwadar deep‑sea port that China actually built.

That statement is 100% correct.

Pakistan envisioned a dream.
China envisioned a port.
China funded it.
China engineered it.
China built it.
China operates it.

Those are not the same thing.

You narrowed the debate to “conception” because execution destroys your argument

You said:

“I was very specific and very targeted on part of conception.”

Exactly, because the moment we talk about:

• planning
• funding
• prioritization
• engineering
• logistics
• maritime strategy
• industrial corridors
• execution

your argument collapses.

So you zoomed into the only part Pakistan actually did:
talk about Gwadar.

Talking is not envisioning.
Pitching is not planning.
Buying land is not building a port.

The project was conceived, financed, engineered, and operationalized by China to serve its own strategic and commercial interests,

Bro, you can NEVER refute facts. Arguments for the sake of arguments can be done over many things but not on exact facts and definitions.
We know that Pakistan pitch the project to US and China. You can't make a pitch if you have not done the studies. If you have not done the conceptualization part or if you have not conceived an idea of port with initial findings then you simply can't make a pitch. I thought that part should have been clear. The conception or conceived part is crystal clear that Pakistan conceived it Not China (which you claimed it did and now just persistent on it just for the sake of arguments). Here's how Pakistan conceived it and not the China.

- 1983 NESPAK Survey: The National Engineering Services Pakistan performed the first local engineering and site evaluation for a port structure.

- 1993 Feasibility Report: The Government of Pakistan commissioned a dedicated technical and financial study that confirmed Gwadar's geo-strategic value for regional and transit trade.

1995–1996: Pakistan allocated billions of rupees from national funds (such as through the Karachi Port Trust) to begin engineering and planning.

• 2002: After initial domestic financial constraints slowed progress, Pakistan turned to China for external assistance.
• 2002–2007: China agreed to fund and technically assist the construction of Phase I of the deep-sea port, which was inaugurated under President Pervez Musharraf in 2007.

Btw, you said I never talk about execution, EXACTLY! I myself is trying hard to explain that my whole point of discussion is SPECIFIC to "conception". There was not a SINGLE other contradiction. Why would I talk about execution when I never contradicted that part. Your one point that I corrected was that it was China who conceived it. I only said No, Pakistan conceived the deep sea port at Gwadar, pitched to China. That's it. Why its sooo hard to accept it bro ??