Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[r3alist]

All your steps above doesn’t save pakistan from india. What you are talking about is better administration and democracy which are totally different topics and all your steps will take years and you have to erase corruption and people must be held accountable etc.

What we are discussing here is about existential threat and how to overcome issues by applying aggressive policy. What I mean from aggressive policy? Well many things which can’t be disclosed here but overall a better image of pakistan with pakistan openly declaring Kashmir as a bilateral issue between china and Pakistan thus removing india as a potential party. I know it seems hard but abrogation also seemed impossible until india made the decision.

You must understand that bringing china in Kashmir dispute is necessary as this will guarantee our success. We also want to defeat Indian army despite smaller in size. All this isn’t possible without Chinese involvement but trust me, defeating india is a possibility.

There is nothing impossible. If there is a problem from Iran then don’t sit back. Cross border, annex parts of nearby countries, create buffer zones, make check posts and call it your own territory. Against Afghanistan and Iran, United States is standing with pakistan but against india, it’s not sure and there is more tilt towards india than towards pakistan. This is where we need china.

All in one, aggressive policies aren’t limited to couple of new policies. It a set of instruction, proper plan to give pakistan a better chance to defeat enemy specially india. Current strategies of think tanks seems to not work. Every new policy is destructive until it’s used by cunning people.

I am totally against defensive posture either it’s related to Iran, Afghanistan or india. No UN can solve Kashmir so pakistan must declare it as its own territory and this will give us excuse to launch another kargil, a psychological war to defeat Indian evil mind.

Whilst I can agree in overall thrust and direction, how can you ever say that strong administration and governance is not a step to sovereign robustness

you are not describing policy. Policy, is in fact far more serious


If you watch my video that I just posted above, you literally have an Indian strategist talking about subverting the weaknesses in Pakistan's civil society, and every facet of its functioning to exploit it, it's kind of a gift to them.....to think in one or two dimensions when the other side is thinking in more, so how is that cunning? Behind, the success of the Pakistani air force, I believe we will learn that there was so much hard work, cunning, learning and determination


Furthermore, China is already party to the Kashmir dispute as it has a chunk of the land, but you might want to check with them first before you go Rambo .....if they are not on board, wasn't one of the lessons of kargil that the Chinese were not on board, and therefore was not willing to be a post hoc, after the fact, bailout option


This always becomes a circular argument, you can only project the national power that is available, and that is a function of what the individuals and people do to create vectors of power

China, such a predictable example, even when it was quite powerful always tried to underplay its power because it knew it had to work very very hard, very very diligeny and as smartly as possible to build up the power and conserve its energies, so when the time comes, it can display them forcefully

 

[Falcon26]

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Modi is getting desperate. Calling for Pak youth to come out against state. Basically shows Indian pyosp target was PTI supporters….

He gave his bullets to the downed Rafales, Su-30mki, mig-29 & Mirage-2000s alright

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Without a guaranteed UNSC Veto, India is extremely vulnerable in geopolitics. What if some 'understanding' is made between the three powers (USA, China and Russia) to squeeze India over Kashmir?
Indians don't really know yet how Modi's 'Muscular' foreign policy has made India weak geopolitically. Economic power doesn't always translate into 'influence', otherwise Japan would be giant influence.

Once the Hindutva Bharat fired missiles into Pakistan she had a crossed all the red lines for it has made a MAD in the Pak-Bharat theater, which can turn the entire world into a nuclear winter (as per an MIT study done during Bush Jr's presidential term), is very much now a possibility. The Imperialists are damn fast in punishing and dead slow in rewarding. Bharat got her "golden opportunity" but has lost it in her unending desire: Hindutva's religious redemption lies in Pakistan's perdition....

 

[Meengla]

Bharat got her "golden opportunity" but has lost it in her unending desire: Hindutva's religious redemption lies in Pakistan's perdition....

20 years ago, India and Pakistan were close to reaching a historic deal over Kashmir and that had the Pakistani Establishment's blessing because General President Musharraf was himself an architect of that deal and on India's side there was the Indian National Congress and the BJP (under Vajpayee) ready to sign on the deal.
And yet just 10 years ago, India brought Modi to power. I can understand Indians were sick of the dynastic rule and corruption before Modi but why that translated into such horrible foreign policy choices as under Modi is just mind blowing. Like Nehru's historic blunder of the 'Forward' policy, this is again a huge blunder but this time China is in no mood to give relief to India. The only explanation for Modi is some ancient hatred of Muslims, some kind of Hindu civilizational 'revivalism' but those are not rational approaches in the modern world.
And here we are: The dream of India becoming a UNSC Permanent member and of turning the Indian Ocean into 'Indian Lake' are perhaps permanently dead or dead in our own lifetime. We may even see India lose territory should it make a hot war again.

 

[r3alist]

20 years ago, India and Pakistan were close to reaching a historic deal over Kashmir and that had the Pakistani Establishment's blessing because General President Musharraf was himself an architect of that deal and on India's side there was the Indian National Congress and the BJP (under Vajpayee) ready to sign on the deal.
And yet just 10 years ago, India brought Modi to power. I can understand Indians were sick of the dynastic rule and corruption before Modi but why that translated into such horrible foreign policy choices as under Modi is just mind blowing. Like Nehru's historic blunder of the 'Forward' policy, this is again a huge blunder but this time China is in no mood to give relief to India. The only explanation for Modi is some ancient hatred of Muslims, some kind of Hindu civilizational 'revivalism' but those are not rational approaches in the modern world.
And here we are: The dream of India becoming a UNSC Permanent member and of turning the Indian Ocean into 'Indian Lake' are perhaps permanently dead or dead in our own lifetime. We may even see India lose territory should it make a hot war again.

Isn't there an assumption that India's foreign policy is independent?

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Interestingly, it's been predicted in the Turkish media too....

No wonder President Trump is after the minerals in the Af-Pak region. IMO he should be allowed to build his very own "Mini Dubai" in Gwadar....

man, thats deep!

 

[Arsalan45]

Whilst I can agree in overall thrust and direction, how can you ever say that strong administration and governance is not a step to sovereign robustness

you are not describing policy. Policy, is in fact far more serious


If you watch my video that I just posted above, you literally have an Indian strategist talking about subverting the weaknesses in Pakistan's civil society, and every facet of its functioning to exploit it, it's kind of a gift to them.....to think in one or two dimensions when the other side is thinking in more, so how is that cunning? Behind, the success of the Pakistani air force, I believe we will learn that there was so much hard work, cunning, learning and determination


Furthermore, China is already party to the Kashmir dispute as it has a chunk of the land, but you might want to check with them first before you go Rambo .....if they are not on board, wasn't one of the lessons of kargil that the Chinese were not on board, and therefore was not willing to be a post hoc, after the fact, bailout option


This always becomes a circular argument, you can only project the national power that is available, and that is a function of what the individuals and people do to create vectors of power

China, such a predictable example, even when it was quite powerful always tried to underplay its power because it knew it had to work very very hard, very very diligeny and as smartly as possible to build up the power and conserve its energies, so when the time comes, it can display them forcefully

I think you don’t understand what we are facing. I said existential threat. You can bring good government etc bring reforms, do everything to improve lives of people and let us suppose pakistan becomes a better economy. Do you think all this will stop india from attacking us? No way. India, Indian government and Indian people of today are very different interns of what we saved 10 or 20 years ago. India was on defensive posture, wasn’t willing to attack pakistan because of aggressive pakistani policies like glorifying freedom struggle in Kashmir like kargil and like threatening india on live tv speeches( Musharraf).

Today india is different. They are telling their people that they will take back our Kashmir. People in pakistan think that it’s lollipop. Its not. We have underestimated india and laughed on them but they struck targets in pakistan, causing mayhem and psychological distress.

Same is necessary for india too and Pakistan needs to do it anyway. Best way is my described way. I am ready to argue to any of our think tanks who thinks that current policy is enough to deter india. It’s not enough. It’s basically a demo of a much bigger full fledged war where india will capture our land so defensive mindset with defensive policy has no place in todays world.

I think when you explained weakness in pakistan, you are basically hinting towards insurgency. Well we have sone same with Indians and god knows what we are capable of. Thing is too much proxy makes you weak and countries for all our before too
Much proxies. Example is india pakistan, israel Iran etc.

All good administrative work, better economy can’t save us because they have numerical superiority and they love it. This is our weak point. You are right about Chinese intentions and whether they will help us or not in future war. Thing is why not make sure that they will intervene. It’s our job and duty to find ways to defeat Indian nefarious designs. With aggressive policies or new aggressive posture, many of our problems will be solved and world will think twice before taking sides.

You must understand the big picture. War is pending. It not far away. I say some months away as india is waiting for winter. That’s why I call it winter war. India has flare now enough Chinese influence in war. They just want to make sure that war will start at a time when the only path that connects china with pakistan will be frozen so that no Chinese military etc. india is playing it like a chess, old textbook style. Smaller chunks of enemy makes one big chunk if we sim them up. This is Israeli policy, same is Indian policy.

It’s our job to find an alternative route or improve infrastructure so that gate which connects pakistan from china can be frozen but soldiers can still enter into each other territory specially a path where tanks can easily enter. This is your winter war. Wait for winter and see the results. I am telling you india is buying time for one last war where they want to capture all of our Kashmir.

I urge large wide underground tunnel on karokoram highway so that china can connect directly with pakistan without harsh terrain like winter snow etc.

 

[Vapnope]

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Repeat the lie so much that people take it as a truth. They still claim an F16 from 2019 lol

 

[r3alist]

I think you don’t understand what we are facing. I said existential threat. You can bring good government etc bring reforms, do everything to improve lives of people and let us suppose pakistan becomes a better economy. Do you think all this will stop india from attacking us? No way. India, Indian government and Indian people of today are very different interns of what we saved 10 or 20 years ago. India was on defensive posture, wasn’t willing to attack pakistan because of aggressive pakistani policies like glorifying freedom struggle in Kashmir like kargil and like threatening india on live tv speeches( Musharraf).

Today india is different. They are telling their people that they will take back our Kashmir. People in pakistan think that it’s lollipop. Its not. We have underestimated india and laughed on them but they struck targets in pakistan, causing mayhem and psychological distress.

Same is necessary for india too and Pakistan needs to do it anyway. Best way is my described way. I am ready to argue to any of our think tanks who thinks that current policy is enough to deter india. It’s not enough. It’s basically a demo of a much bigger full fledged war where india will capture our land so defensive mindset with defensive policy has no place in todays world.

I think when you explained weakness in pakistan, you are basically hinting towards insurgency. Well we have sone same with Indians and god knows what we are capable of. Thing is too much proxy makes you weak and countries for all our before too
Much proxies. Example is india pakistan, israel Iran etc.

All good administrative work, better economy can’t save us because they have numerical superiority and they love it. This is our weak point. You are right about Chinese intentions and whether they will help us or not in future war. Thing is why not make sure that they will intervene. It’s our job and duty to find ways to defeat Indian nefarious designs. With aggressive policies or new aggressive posture, many of our problems will be solved and world will think twice before taking sides.

You must understand the big picture. War is pending. It not far away. I say some months away as india is waiting for winter. That’s why I call it winter war. India has flare now enough Chinese influence in war. They just want to make sure that war will start at a time when the only path that connects china with pakistan will be frozen so that no Chinese military etc. india is playing it like a chess, old textbook style. Smaller chunks of enemy makes one big chunk if we sim them up. This is Israeli policy, same is Indian policy.

It’s our job to find an alternative route or improve infrastructure so that gate which connects pakistan from china can be frozen but soldiers can still enter into each other territory specially a path where tanks can easily enter. This is your winter war. Wait for winter and see the results. I am telling you india is buying time for one last war where they want to capture all of our Kashmir.

Well, if it comes down to a full on protracted sort of war, where army formations are mobilized and it goes on for weeks and months then you are right and I am wrong

But, do you really think that probable?

Sometimes there is a temptation to superimpose your own thinking onto the other, from everything that we know it sounds like they are valuing the economic, political, cultural and societal attacks

 

[That_Guy]

F-35s are the ultimate projection of the US hegemony. Even the Western European countries aren't free from it....

Now is the time for the PAF to start figuring out the weakness of the IAF version, which definitely would be different from the USAF ones. According to both the F16's principal designer and Elon Mask, F-35s have some weak links....

Elon Musk is an idiot who doesn't know what he's talking about, and the F-16 designer (i know who you're talking about, don't remember name) didn't even like the F-16 and considered it a failure.

The F-35 has weaknesses, but by the time theyre figured out, it'll be too late.

On topic, India is not getting the F-35, unless it gets rid of the S-400. It's simply not happening.

 

[Arsalan45]

Well, if it comes down to a full on protracted sort of war, where army formations are mobilized and it goes on for weeks and months then you are right and I am wrong

But, do you really think that probable?

Sometimes there is a temptation to superimpose your own thinking onto the other, from everything that we know it sounds like they are valuing the economic, political, cultural and societal attacks

I disagree. I am sure only objective of india and Bjp led india is to divide pakistan. I asked same question with one ex army officer of Indian army, a friend and a former member here, (hellfire), he said they are coming to take back our Kashmir. It’s not a joke. I respect their opinions. They are emotional for our Kashmir because Bjp has made whole nation a warmonger. Before mosque attack, pakistan was living in a delusion that india can’t do that. Well india did that so wake up. Make underground tunnel, wide tunnel so that 2 tanks can pass simultaneously and we need underground infrastructure on khunerjeeb pass. It’s better to wake up and help defend country and make new policies rather than sleeping and living in denial.

 

[r3alist]

I disagree. I am sure only objective of india and Bjp led india is to divide pakistan. I asked same question with one ex army officer of Indian army, a friend and a former member here, (hellfire), he said they are coming to take back our Kashmir. It’s not a joke. I respect their opinions. They are emotional for our Kashmir because Bjp has made whole nation a warmonger. Before mosque attack, pakistan was living in a delusion that india can’t do that. Well india did that so wake up. Make underground tunnel, wide tunnel so that 2 tanks can pass simultaneously and we need underground infrastructure on khunerjeeb pass. It’s better to wake up and help defend country and make new policies rather than sleeping and living in denial.

I think, it's within the scope of possibility for India to launch an offensive to quickly grab a slice of Kashmir, and then try to call Pakistan's bluff to escalate

To launch an all-out offensive, like wars of old, with drain them and leave them exposed on the North and East

 

[Arsalan45]

I think, it's within the scope of possibility for India to launch an offensive to quickly grab a slice of Kashmir, and then try to call Pakistan's bluff to escalate

To launch an all-out offensive, like wars of old, with drain them and leave them exposed on the North and East

I am sure it’s for whole Kashmir of ours. There are talks. He said other things as well which is obviously disrespectful for us but he is sure about impending Indian attack and I am sure as well that’s why I want pakistan to start it first by declaring Kashmir as ours. Our attack should be for psychological reasons. I understand Indian policies quite well and you can go and read their forums. They are hellbent on taking back our Kashmir. They are all
United against us. Bjp United them like a nation, a nation representing only Hindus etc. you must understand that without Chinese help, we will never be able to hold off for long.

 

[Arsalan45]

During winter, nobody expects attack because of harsh conditions. Winter will freeze most of Chinese Pakistani path( khunerjeeb pass) so larger military movement is impossible. India knows it. It wants quick action with no possibility of Chinese involvement so that’s why I am asking to make wide tunnels. I am sure winter war is coming. It’s not hysteria. It’s just I think in the same clever way. India is a clever enemy and militant attack in Kashmir will bring full invasion of our Kashmir. As explained by Christine fair, future conflict is a serious business with more escalation.

 

[Meengla]

Isn't there an assumption that India's foreign policy is independent?

More independent than Pakistan's been. But most countries have some kind of dependence upon the others, and thus alliances exist.
But who really defines policies?? Trump is radically different from Biden. General Munir is very different from General Zia. Mr. Modi is quite different from Manmohan Singh. Putin is different from Medveyev. In the end, 'careerism' and 'loyalty' binds half a dozen people to their 'leader' and they form domestic and foreign policies.