Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[ARMalik]

Indian poopjeets claiming that they went inside Pakistan 100-km during their exercise to disband infrastructure.

 

[arsalan345]

Why is naval chief scheduled to visit bangladesh when it is under his command that most operations in southern AOR will be conducted naval or coastal

I can't explain it either. Silence from our side means no reasonable threat. Maybe there is no pretext, that's why. I don't think that India needs a pretext. We must remain alert. This India is not the India of Vajpayee(rest in peace) or Manmohan(rest in peace). It's different India. Bangladesh is not ready. They need years, and modernization is necessary. dragging Bangladesh means opening up the second front, and it clearly means that Afghanistan is with India.
The situation is not clear, but I am expecting something from India.

 

[arsalan345]

Indian poopjeets claiming that they went inside Pakistan 100-km during their exercise to disband infrastructure.

Let them say whatever they want. Some of their tanks got hit directly, and some of their soldiers inside the tanks died. They will not show it publicly. Let's say we crossed ib and went inside India as well. They will try to show themselves as heroes because they lost the whole conflict. Only airbase hits helped them. They have nothing else to show. We can bomb the indian civilian population as well and show videos to the world. They think it's a victory. It's laughable.

We created air supremacy, total air dominance. Their injured service members show the other side of the story and clearly col. Sofia didn't lie on May 10 when she said that 10 or 11 airbases and military installments were attacked. We did well. The country is in safe hands. Don't worry.

 

[RescueRanger]

Indian poopjeets claiming that they went inside Pakistan 100-km during their exercise to disband infrastructure.

Yeah whatever...

 

[Baibers_1260]

Good luck with that. As much as i would like to believe that our people are well aware of looming and ever present indian threat, in practice i dont see this threat perception level among general public.

This threat perception will change once the war begins to effect our elite and decision makers. The enemy missiles and drones would need to hit Clifton and Gulberg. At the moment what goes on in Leepa valley or Chaman is too far away to have any effect on the dinner parties in Karachi. The memory of the December 4th 1971 raid (Operation Trident) has been erased.

Instead our academia, dominated by liberal secular ideologies has led the public to believe that indians are not a threat to us, but somehow we are a threat to them and they even justify indian actions against us.

Off topic: "Liberal and secular" doesn't mean pacifist and unpatriotic. Here are good examples.
The Soviet Union fought two horrific wars :

1. A western backed "Civil War " invasion 1918-1923, that killed 13 million Russians. Of these 9 million were civilians dying from bombing, chemical warfare, famine, cold and a raging Spanish Flue pandemic.​

​

2. Invasion by Nazi Germany (1941-1945). The war cost the Soviet Union 27 million lives, and widespread destruction.. The war once again destroyed 30% of the Soviet Union's agriculture and industrial resources​

​

The religiously motivated "patriotic " population betrayed the nation on both occasions.
In the "Civil War" (1918-23) the religiously minded population treacherously collaborated with the external intervention in the name of "Christian unity" against godless atheists. This is analogous to the "nut jobs" in Pakistan collaborating with the TTP to bring "Islamic" rule in Pakistan
In the World War 2 (1941-1945) the ethnic-chauvinist religious fundamentalists in Ukraine already engaged in ethnic terrorism treacherously betrayed the nation inflicting horrors on the Jewish and Russian minorities killing millions . This is analogous to the BLA massacring linguistic and ethnic minorities in Baluchistan.

The armed forces of the establishment collapsed in both instances leading to huge swathes of territory lost to either direct foreign occupation or control by foreign backed traitorous militias.
In both cases it was the apathetic liberal secular middle class professionals that rose to the challenge ( despite having extreme hatred for their own government ) .The partisan movements were successfully lead by the secular liberals in a bitter resistance to the foreign occupation and intervention , and elsewhere the middle class rallied to provide the intellectual manpower to shore up the damaged industrial infrastructure and produce the weapons needed to win the war. Of course the costs were horrendous but nonetheless the wars were won. A gripping account of the horrific "Civil War" is given in the book "How The Steel Was Tempered "

I insist on saying that liberal secular academia has done considerable damage to the public narrative because these guys are hell bent on destroying the one force that is binding us all and that is Islam.

Islam is our religion for personal spiritual salvation, and is not a "binding force" . This was evident in the civil war we fought in 1971.
Post-1971 our nation is much better defined by our diverse rich cultural heritage, unique and beautiful geography and the resilience of our people. Secular Nationalist Patriotism can be the only binding force for our blessed land and its people.

Pakistanis fight for the nation bcz we believe it was created for muslims and Islam, if you remove that how are you going to convince your avrg soldier to sacrifice his life?

Not true.. The average Pakistani soldier from Dera Ismail Khan or Peshawar fights for his women and children, his home, his village and land. The option for him and his family to migrate to Los Angeles or London is just not there.

For all the injustices of our society, he ( the soldier) is still willing to lay down his life bcz he believes in a higher cause which is Islam.

The average Pakistani soldier is protecting his family and people both from fundamentalist fascists who would shoot his daughter in the head for wishing to go to school, or a foreign invading force re-populating his land where his wife would be raped and his brother lynched for eating beef. These are twin threats that the average Pakistani faces today.
The secular liberal middle class professionals in Karachi haven't realized the seriousness of these threats yet . Like the Russian middle class in Leningrad (in 1941) who planned every weekend with an evening at the orchestra or a dance at the club with the finest wine and food, our secular liberal middle class haven't learned yet. They will learn and adapt once the roofs of their homes come crashing down and bodies are pulled from the rubble. Not everyone can runaway to London.
Ultimately the fate of Pakistan lies with these very secular liberal middle class professionals who will rise up to lead and protect the nation they love..
@Master Chief

 

[arsalan345]

We should all watch indian news channels in the next conflict. You guys will see things that they don't show publicly. Some of their media channels showed amazing things in May. Keep a close eye on the indian media in the next conflict. and yes both parties openly accept that red lines are crossed which means yes, it's crossed.

 

[airhead]

I will very slightly mention Gen Musharraf here, contextually isolating and restricting it to the "need for indigenous innovation" that was expanded and laid foundation to during his era (as a direct result of his and his counterparts' strategic forward thinking). The PAC was expanded in line with indigenous development and self-reliance. GIDS (the entity making rounds these days with its Drones) was envisioned by JSHQ under Gen Musharraf's leadership. Surprisingly, believe it or not, he was one of the very few Generals in his time who truly respected and acknowledged the modern trio (Air Force, Air Defense, and Special Forces) as opposed to the conventional Infantry/Armour focus which led to the development of ADGE, CLIAD, and AEWACs (that we recently saw in action in May 25), and modernization of the equipment for Special Forces.

Here are a few domestic achievement examples from between 1999-2007:-

1. Indeginous design and production of BD Suits based on Canadaian EOD8/9 went into development around 2005/6 and inducted in 2007/8.
2. Indigenous MANPADS (ANZA Mk-III) developed and inducted in 2006.
3. ROSE upgrade for Mirage Vs.
4. Resource allocation towards JF program that led to early development and induction by 2007.
5. Similar resource allocation to the development of Link-17, that became fully operational around 2010.
6. Similar resource allocation to build indigenous tugs and boats for PN.
7. CM (Babur and Ra'ad) and BM (Shaheen-II and Ghauri) development - althought the programs were initiated earlier - during Gen Musharraf's era they received considerable funds, ASFC became an independent Corps (also the time Gen Kidwai became a household name) - it was during this time our missile program was accelerated and foundations for a second strike capability was laid down which became operational around 2017.

Besides, you can argue that the following aren't indigenous but nonetheless they did modernize our military:-

1. Finalization of plans and contractual agreement for the agreement of Saab 2000 (Erieye) in 2005, and preliminary agreement for ZDK-03 which were then formally contracted in 2008.
2. Induction of YLC-2 and YLC-6 radars b/w 2003-2006

So, to say Musharraf era was focused on US Aid is very simplistic, reductionist, and factually incorrect. Though there was an element of relying on US, as it was a transitionary period, Gen Musharraf is the person who not only shifted the focus to a more modern military but also on to indigenous tech and self-reliance

I will very slightly mention Gen Musharraf here, contextually isolating and restricting it to the "need for indigenous innovation" that was expanded and laid foundation to during his era (as a direct result of his and his counterparts' strategic forward thinking). The PAC was expanded in line with indigenous development and self-reliance. GIDS (the entity making rounds these days with its Drones) was envisioned by JSHQ under Gen Musharraf's leadership. Surprisingly, believe it or not, he was one of the very few Generals in his time who truly respected and acknowledged the modern trio (Air Force, Air Defense, and Special Forces) as opposed to the conventional Infantry/Armour focus which led to the development of ADGE, CLIAD, and AEWACs (that we recently saw in action in May 25), and modernization of the equipment for Special Forces.

Here are a few domestic achievement examples from between 1999-2007:-

1. Indeginous design and production of BD Suits based on Canadaian EOD8/9 went into development around 2005/6 and inducted in 2007/8.
2. Indigenous MANPADS (ANZA Mk-III) developed and inducted in 2006.
3. ROSE upgrade for Mirage Vs.
4. Resource allocation towards JF program that led to early development and induction by 2007.
5. Similar resource allocation to the development of Link-17, that became fully operational around 2010.
6. Similar resource allocation to build indigenous tugs and boats for PN.
7. CM (Babur and Ra'ad) and BM (Shaheen-II and Ghauri) development - althought the programs were initiated earlier - during Gen Musharraf's era they received considerable funds, ASFC became an independent Corps (also the time Gen Kidwai became a household name) - it was during this time our missile program was accelerated and foundations for a second strike capability was laid down which became operational around 2017.

Besides, you can argue that the following aren't indigenous but nonetheless they did modernize our military:-

1. Finalization of plans and contractual agreement for the agreement of Saab 2000 (Erieye) in 2005, and preliminary agreement for ZDK-03 which were then formally contracted in 2008.
2. Induction of YLC-2 and YLC-6 radars b/w 2003-2006

So, to say Musharraf era was focused on US Aid is very simplistic, reductionist, and factually incorrect. Though there was an element of relying on US, as it was a transitionary period, Gen Musharraf is the person who not only shifted the focus to a more modern military but also on to indigenous tech and self-reliance.

Thanks for sharing. How many global enterprises were produced that were leaders in their respective markets? How much revenue coming from these players? All these were small potatoes as the buyers were largely Pakistan military and not globally competitive. I may be wrong but these innovations thst you talked about did not move the needle for Pakistan otherwise these players would be invited in global export bids.

The reason was all of this was top down ..:again governments funneling money to form companies. It wasn’t driven by raw talent of pakistanis. There wasn’t any culture of getting people educated..no innovation policies were created. If there was then yes these would have been sustainable businesses . Again what i am saying is that top down innovation rarely works ..we need to motivate and energize our awaam to create things …not the govt . Imran is the only one who gets that and was working towards it. Musharraf did not get this part particularly because he wasn’t in the awaam in a daily basis …you need to engage people at grass roots to create this type of a culture that creates these types of entrepreneurs. Right now our talent is exiting Pakistan and that was the same case during Musharraf although not nearly as bad

 

[hnn]

Thanks for sharing. How many global enterprises were produced that were leaders in their respective markets? How much revenue coming from these players? All these were small potatoes as the buyers were largely Pakistan military and not globally competitive. I may be wrong but these innovations thst you talked about did not move the needle for Pakistan otherwise these players would be invited in global export bids.

The reason was all of this was top down ..:again governments funneling money to form companies. It wasn’t driven by raw talent of pakistanis. There wasn’t any culture of getting people educated..no innovation policies were created. If there was then yes these would have been sustainable businesses . Again what i am saying is that top down innovation rarely works ..we need to motivate and energize our awaam to create things …not the govt . Imran is the only one who gets that and was working towards it. Musharraf did not get this part particularly because he wasn’t in the awaam in a daily basis …you need to engage people at grass roots to create this type of a culture that creates these types of entrepreneurs. Right now our talent is exiting Pakistan and that was the same case during Musharraf although not nearly as bad

I already said "contextually isolated" to indigenous development of military equipment and tech. You are expanding the topic out of that context into a broader socio-economic domain which is a separate discussion that belongs to politico-economic sections of the forum.

But is pertinent to mention here that PAC and GIDS are state owned entities who have now begun to break into export market. You can't expect such entities to be an overnight success especially when there were no such private entities present and thriving already.

As for the top down process - again it's not as simplistic as you have summarized it. Private education reforms were again introduced in Gen Musharraf era - it's a separate nuance why those private institutions have failed over the years and where Musharraf's and then later Governmental policies could have been better (again a longer discussion for a separate forum)

My response is specifically against the simplistic view that "Musharraf Model" solely relied on US dependency, for which I have also mentioned factual realities and not just "IK knew better" argument.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

@Yasser76

(try not to laugh moment!)

no, it is serious matter!

apparently, top one of the most prolific Ind. defence analyst believes:

"these ex. that IAF and their armed forces have been conducting, are meant to harass and degrade the operational capacity of the AD system, because it would require constant and non-stop usage!"

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

no, Im not afraid of him...


because he looks like one of those, who cram and rote learn



only to realize, paper eventually came out of syllabus!

(bec. he never understood the syllabus in the first place, duh!)

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@Yasser76

Absolutely no real tension but members here acting as if we are on the brink of war.

Relax. It is just time pass.

Regards

 

[Waz]

View attachment 157523


no, Im not afraid of him...


because he looks like one of those, who cram and rote learn



only to realize, paper eventually came out of syllabus!

(bec. he never understood the syllabus in the first place, duh!)

Looks like the local corner shop/7-Eleven guy.




Pakistan be fearing me, come on fight is on

 

[Master Chief]

Looks like the local corner shop/7-Eleven guy.




Pakistan be fearing me, come on fight is on

View attachment 157534

I've seen him at the local Esso.. "Attention pump numbar 7! You must pay faarst for petrol saar after 9pm!"

 

[Yasser76]

View attachment 157523


no, Im not afraid of him...


because he looks like one of those, who cram and rote learn



only to realize, paper eventually came out of syllabus!

(bec. he never understood the syllabus in the first place, duh!)

Honestly, I realise it's not about optics all the time, but he really does not look the part does he? I am sure he must be a bright guy, but looks like they promoted some slightly over keen guy in accounts...

 

[RescueRanger]

Thank you France24