Mighty_Dragon_Strike
Trusted Member
yes, Ind controls escalation threshold
and we do need, a very potent AD system
but wont make aerial adv. totally irrelevant
Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion
- Thread starter Ali_Baba
- Start date
yes, Ind controls escalation threshold
and we do need, a very potent AD system
but wont make aerial adv. totally irrelevant
Master Chief
Trusted Member
I would speculate that the latter is perhaps more important than the former.
Even the near infinite ammo supply glitch nation of Israel ran out of interceptors vs. Iran.
We will never have the ammo stockpiles they have, so I think the counter-barrage (or hopefully our pre-emptive barrage) of rockets and missiles and drones is more important, to cripple the enemy while it tries to cripple us. Such strikes must be DECISIVE.
Oscar
Moderator
And accurate -
Because in your smaller outnumbered and outgunned nation scenario unless you make the first hit count you are likely not surviving the reprisal.
Baibers_1260
Trusted Member
Agree 100% , For the Operation Sindoor scenario that was the only rational course of action,
However, Operation Sindoor has exposed our weaknesses to the enemy.
The enemy now knows and believes :
Pakistan has an imperfect air defense, no demonstration of being able to retaliate and very little capability to sustain a prolonged campaign. Pakistan relies on foreign intervention to stop aggression from India. Pakistan's nuclear bluff has been called. Pakistan will never use its nuclear weapons ( even if they have not already been surrendered to a foreign power)
The NEXT war that is imminent will be fought by India , mercilessly pounding Pakistan into submission. India will fend off every foreign attempt to mediate a ceasefire because it knows it will ultimately win the long war with no serious consequences.
This is not to suggest that India will suffer no losses, Luckily, there IS a silver lining. Through out history, India has shown very little appetite for mass casualty conventional warfare, particularly handling insurgencies in foreign lands. Even with a 7:1 casualty rate in India's favor the horrific casualties of an insurgency post-collapse may not be acceptable to India, which might ( just might ) vacate a devastated Pakistan just as it vacated Bangladesh and Sri Lanka. This scenario depends of course, on how much the Pakistani people are willing to fight for their freedom.
Last edited:
Oscar
Moderator
The goal isnt purely to "pound" Pakistan but to weaken it enough ala Syria that the military's status breaks which because of its "parasite" nature within the state rather than just one pillar causes the state to collapse.
The nuclear weapons have been bargained for already back in 2011 that the window to use them is so narrow and unless the will/support to use them immense - their locations will ensure that majority are neutralized by "frenemies" and the remaining are bargained away for later with whatever remains of PA.
However, before we get to such doom and gloom scenarios - the strategy of Pakistan to basically tie its failure as too costly for its allies and "friends" can be plainly viewed.
Infact, lets say Pakistan now deploys troops to Gaza, India will be compelled again to hold off as soon as it is determined it can claim some upper hand to satisfy its core goals. The destruction of Pakistan is a "utopia" for all of India and Bhaktoras - a strong account of "victory" regardless of actual impact to the status quo is more important.
Baibers_1260
Trusted Member
Agree.. The Syrian example is stark, There is a China factor however. Unless Pakistan is flattened quickly and the leadership decapitated ( either through direct drone strikes or through proxies), merely weakening Pakistan could result in a Chinese intervention; not on the Sino-Indian border, but directly within Pakistan, similar to the way Russia militarily intervened to save the Bashar Al Assad regime. Much later bogged down in Ukraine Russia was unable to save Bashar Al Assad.
It is unlikely that India will give China this opportunity. India is planning a swift collapse like Gaddafi in Libya or later Bashar Al Assad in Syria. Pakistan has a festering insurgency, exactly the way Syria and Libya had. India loves supporting ethnic insurgencies and has a precedent and nostalgia for the famous 1971 collapse and surrender in Dhaka before the US Seventh Fleet Task Force could intervene. There are differences from the 1971 situation. The China factor is unpredictable. China may or may not step in to save Pakistan but it will likely pump a lot of weapons after the collapse to the resistance against Indian occupation.
Regardless of the status of the nuclear weapons, these will not be used. No one in this ( Tik Tok ) generation wants to be vaporized especially when there is a strong likelihood that the nuclear strikes will be a one way street.
If India can convince the world that with its 5 million army and $4 trillion economy it can occupy, and run Pakistan as a colony, the world ( including Pakistan's so-called Ummah friends) will be much relieved to see the only "Islamic " nuclear power go into the history books forever. Unfortunately India's record of handling insurgencies in Sri Lanka and its own North East is spotty at best, India is banking on its soft power and social media propaganda to convince the Pakistani Gen Z generation that their future lies in integrating back into India and reverting to their former religion. The goodies are Bollywood, cricket, and a $4 trillion economy.
I doubt if deployment of troops in Gaza would deter India from launching an aggression. Operation Parakaram was launched against Pakistan even as just a two years earlier Indian and Pakistani troops were jointly serving in UN peacekeeping forces in Bosnia and elsewhere.
The Bhaktoras realize that an illusion of "victory' can be sustained only for a brief period and Pakistan always rebounds and portrays its own narrative. This is humiliating for domestic politics and also for the Indian Armed Forces themselves. There is an ominous transformation however. For the first time the Indian Armed forces are talking of a Dharamyudh or Holy War where the real destruction of Pakistan, and Bangladesh ( also the elimination of the Indian Muslims) is the objective, not optics.
hasssanali8998
Elite Member
Remind me of the theory by indians that the Rafale engine was seen separating due to the stress of high-G maneuvering haha like it was a sanitary pad not engine
Corax
Registered Member
The bottom line is that the Pakistani response was not painful enough to deter india. In 2019 the PAF responded within 24 hours by attacking indian military posts, albeit symbolically. In May 2025, the iaf was grounded for two days, the PAF and army had the upper hand, they should have conducted a joint combined operation to hit them hard. They should have destroyed more aircraft on the first night too. All this limp wristed talk of "restraint" is just digging our own graves.
Oscar
Moderator
To do this would require massive deployment which they cannot do without being picked up.
The whole " decapitating strike" scenario requires deployment of various vectors which as a consequence of their deployment are picked up by surveillance sweeps.
So it is not like India isnt in a rock and hard place scenario despite their deployment of Shauryas and other systems in cold launch silos in certain locations. Deployment of satellite radars helps them time out when and how to sneak deployments but they would need layers upon layers of counter surveillance systems to truly be able to launch a decapitating non nuclear first strike.
The occupational force theory wont fly with the world and even with Op Parakaram the US was very explicit with India on consequences including providing real time intel to Pakistan on Indian movements. That is really what spawned cold start and now China is providing that capability.
So while their aspiration may be Dharamyudh - the tolerance to losses along with potential damage they do take to their own $4 trillion economy will factor into their calculation. It did just recently and Modi's business buddies were pretty noisy regarding how exposed their own assets were(and why India is now creating AD layers for them).
arjunk
Trusted Member
What religion? The Vedic Religion that deems dark skinned Indians to be sub-human low caste 'dasyu' who must be slaughtered and enslaved by the Aryans?
Or the artificially British-manufactured 'Hindu' religious bastard-identity from the 19th century?
The $4 trillion economy does not translate to improved living standards for the common man; it is merely a byproduct of India's massive population.
Israel is more important to the US than the US's own interests, let alone some balkan conflict or UN peacekeeping force. Totally different scenario.
What exactly makes you think this?
And me personally, would rather be vaporized by a nuclear fireball, than live under foreign occupation. Ask the West Bank what happens when you surrender to your occupier.
It doesn't really make economic sense to choose defence over offense (unless Saudis are funding us to the order of tens of billions of dollars per year).
PAC-3s are millions of dollars per missile, while a Fatah is probably 100k per rocket.
40 Fatah rockets deter India far more than a single PAC-3 interceptor. 40 Fatah rockets could disable an IAF air station or suppress its air defence to allow PAF to penetrate.
Being defensive alone does not give you deterrence. Israel not only had a robust air defence (that was faltering rapidly anyway), the Israeli Air Force also destroyed Iranian missile launchers, silos, radars, and S-300 batteries.
The important thing for Pakistan is to mass produce Fatah-series and give PAF an offensive punch.
Upgrade F-16 to V standard, free up JF-17s from CAP role so they can shift to offensive strikes.
arjunk
Trusted Member
Did I forget to mention, the vedic religion followers ate beef, while the 'dasyus' they slaughtered were phallus (ling) worshippers?
arjunk
Trusted Member
I wouldn't doubt the will/support to use fight and use nukes.
After all, this is the same country where military offiers defected to Al Qaeda to declare war on the US, and hordes of youth volunteer to join various militant organizations in and out of the country.
gamaji
Registered Member
Probably you meant a stray dog, isn't it?
